Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 05 Aug 2018 (Sunday) 21:22
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Does mirrorless do anything for you?

 
Mbell1975
Member
248 posts
Likes: 61
Joined Jul 2018
Post edited over 1 year ago by Mbell1975. (2 edits in all)
     
Aug 08, 2018 14:39 |  #121
bannedPermanent ban

rantercsr wrote in post #18679293 (external link)
i wonder how long before dslr's become the hipster/ artsy thing to shoot.

i do remember shooting film into early 2000's maybe.. at which point if i recall correctly digital started trickling into the mainstream..

i dont recall clearly as i was to poor to afford more than a disposable film camera in those days..

but seems like the digital take over was pretty quick.

i dont think anything kills anything as literally as those that feel ML does nothing for them are trying to twist things into.
there will always be paper, i still see cd's for sale at CVS/walmart , they still sell film.

but no where near what it used to be.

ML will eventually dominiate. i wonder if it will be as quick as the way digital took over films spot

The jump from film to digital was massive and FAR more advantageous for the shooter from the workflow standpoint alone as the internet was just taking off. The jump from DSLR to mirrorless is negligible in comparison and vastly overrated. Hobby and enthusiast photographers on forums switching over is nice and all but when you see all those pro sports, action and wildlife shooters switching to mirrorless, then you will know it has really arrived. Im guessing thats going to start happening once Canon and Nikon release their FF mirrorless cameras but a major shift wont happen for another 3-5 years.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Mbell1975
Member
248 posts
Likes: 61
Joined Jul 2018
     
Aug 08, 2018 14:51 |  #122
bannedPermanent ban

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18680291 (external link)
I tend to find those that say that haven't ever really tried shooting with a rebel, or it was a decade ago with the T1i and earlier models. Certainly those rebels made in the last few years are quite, quite capable, some with DR and IQ beating out older FF at low ISO. There just isn't really a bad camera made any more from any manufacturer, that is what competition brings to the table... all model lines have to improve quickly to keep up.

Agreed. I have had every Rebel from the XTi thru the T6i with the exception of the T4i. They are my backups to my FF bodies and sometimes (as I just posted on the last page) I use them as my main if I know its only going to be for an 8x11 magazine print. I typically use my FF bodies for more high end work that require larger prints or when Im shooting my 85 or 135, my 50 stays on my backup body. Only reason I didn't get a T7i to back up my 6D is because I chose the 77D instead, mostly for the top LCD, wheel on the back and cheaper price. Actually, I believe most of my published work has been shot with Rebels than any of the various 5D models I have owned or the 6D.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
37,640 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6281
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Aug 08, 2018 15:00 as a reply to  @ Mbell1975's post |  #123

I find that magazines (or other media outlets) care less about what format we shoot than we do on forums. :) They just want an image that tells a story or is a great capture of the subject at hand, and the photo doesn't have to tick off all technical and IQ boxes like we tend to do in these discussions.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mbell1975
Member
248 posts
Likes: 61
Joined Jul 2018
Post edited over 1 year ago by Mbell1975. (6 edits in all)
     
Aug 08, 2018 15:26 |  #124
bannedPermanent ban

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18680308 (external link)
I find that magazines (or other media outlets) care less about what format we shoot than we do on forums. :) They just want an image that tells a story or is a great capture of the subject at hand, and the photo doesn't have to tick off all technical and IQ boxes like we tend to do in these discussions.

Exactly. Ive never had an agency, editor or any client ask me if I was using an APS-C or FF sensor camera, or if I was using a Rebel or a 5Div, they dont care as long as they like the finished product. Thats why I get a kick out of online forums, the guys shooting to show off their photos online, obsessing over DR for their shots of their kids or some random shot in a park and spending thousands more on f/1.2 lenses because they are convinced that f/1.4 (or *gasp*, f/1.8!) just wont get them that amazing bokeh and quality images to post on their Flickr :-P Its great entertainment.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,606 posts
Likes: 415
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Aug 08, 2018 15:35 |  #125
bannedPermanent ban

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680285 (external link)
Hmmmm. Here are two pics I shot with a Rebel T2i and the cheapest lens (50 f/1.8) that Canon makes. The first was published in Maxim, the second was featured in a layout for Muscle and Fitness. Both were shot natural light, no flashes or strobes. Ive also had shots published around the world I took on a T5i and a T6i. If you can't get quality photos with a Rebel, its not the camera....

https://imgur.com/maNP​M7W (external link)
https://imgur.com/IUDA​NL7 (external link)

Sure when lighting is not challenging or AF is not challenging then just about any camera will do. Get away from “nice conditions” and you’ll quickly appreciate the more advanced cameras abilities.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
37,640 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6281
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. (5 edits in all)
     
Aug 08, 2018 15:44 |  #126

Interestingly, for example, the SL2 has better DR at lower ISOs than a 5D2 or 6D. At high ISO, it is pretty close to something like the 5D2 as well. The Rebel T7i has 45 all cross point AF, so even in comparisons of AF systems, it beats out things like the 5D2, 6D, and has more frame coverage than the 6D2.

So no, even in challenging light, high DR, or fast moving subjects, today's Rebels are up to the task. Now if you want to keep comparisons to the current generations FF vs Rebels, then sure the FF will deliver the better goods, but if the 5D2 or 6D or even others were touted in the day as having great IQ, then today's Rebels do as well by the same token.

We now use the SL2 for real estate shots, especially when combined with the Sigma 8-16. This test was performed at home to see if we could use it, and after this, I knew we could. It has been successful for the last few listings now. Great tool for that aspect of our photographic adventures!

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Electronics/SL2/i-FrBwfpZ/0/20f9eaf6/X3/sl2_dr2-X3.gif

Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,606 posts
Likes: 415
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Aug 08, 2018 15:56 |  #127
bannedPermanent ban

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18680348 (external link)
Interestingly, for example, the SL2 has better DR at lower ISOs than a 5D2 or 6D. At high ISO, it is pretty close to something like the 5D2 as well. The Rebel T7i has 45 all cross point AF as well, so even in comparisons of AF systems, it beats out things like the 5D2, 6D, and has more frame coverage than the 6D2.

So no, even in challenging light, high DR, or fast moving subjects, today's Rebels are up to the task. Now if you want to keep comparisons to the current generations FF vs Rebels, then sure the FF will deliver the better goods, but if the 5D2 or 6D or even others were touted in the day as having great IQ, then today's Rebels do as well by the same token.

I see you shoot with a 5d4...why? Seems like a dumb choice if you truly don't believe there are no differences between a Rebel costing $2,000 less and the 5d4.

I used to shoot with a 5d2 and the majority of my landscapes required GND filters in order to tame down the dynamic range in the scene. Switching to the A7R, I reduced my reliance on GND filters by half if not more. For street or indoor photography where it's very dim, my 5d2 would have trouble with both focus and the resulting noisy high ISO images. I get much better AF and way better high ISO images with my A7R3.

My claim is the A73 is the same caliber as the 5d4 and comparing it to a small rebel just to show you can get a small DSLR package is not comparing apples to apples.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
16,324 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 6364
Joined Sep 2007
     
Aug 08, 2018 16:33 |  #128

I really dont mind the size and handing of Rebels. The issue is that it's a low end model, so Canon will gimp that model, likely with lower frame rate, lower shutter / sync speeds, ect. Are there any Rebels with the featureset of a 5D? deep buffer? high fps? highest quality video? Configure options?

I'de stated as a Canon user of the past lifetime, that I'de love a Rebel sized FF. The issue always comes to the details mentioned above, entry level models get features withheld.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
37,640 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6281
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Aug 08, 2018 16:37 |  #129

Hogloff wrote in post #18680361 (external link)
I see you shoot with a 5d4...why? Seems like a dumb choice if you truly don't believe there are no differences between a Rebel costing $2,000 less and the 5d4.

I used to shoot with a 5d2 and the majority of my landscapes required GND filters in order to tame down the dynamic range in the scene. Switching to the A7R, I reduced my reliance on GND filters by half if not more. For street or indoor photography where it's very dim, my 5d2 would have trouble with both focus and the resulting noisy high ISO images. I get much better AF and way better high ISO images with my A7R3.

My claim is the A73 is the same caliber as the 5d4 and comparing it to a small rebel just to show you can get a small DSLR package is not comparing apples to apples.

I shoot many different things. I shoot sports with the 5D4, along with the 7D2. I shoot portraits with all 3. Our business shoots real estate with the SL2/Sigma. The Sl2 is our travel and vacation camera too. We are not arguing about the size and caliber of the current FF, the comments made thus far was directed to your comment that the Rebels cannot produce high quality images.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
37,640 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6281
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Aug 08, 2018 16:38 |  #130

Charlie wrote in post #18680387 (external link)
I really dont mind the size and handing of Rebels. The issue is that it's a low end model, so Canon will gimp that model, likely with lower frame rate, lower shutter / sync speeds, ect. Are there any Rebels with the featureset of a 5D? deep buffer? high fps? highest quality video? Configure options?

I'de stated as a Canon user of the past lifetime, that I'de love a Rebel sized FF. The issue always comes to the details mentioned above, entry level models get features withheld.

I can agree with that. The SL2 has the old antiquated 9pt AF system. There is no reason for that. It does have a fully functional touch tilt LCD though, and DPAF is quite amazing, face follow in live view is pretty amazing with an STM lens, so there are some good functions there, but still no reason for 9pt AF. They could have at least run the old 19pt AF from the 7D even. Canon continually plays that feature game, and it is very annoying.

Sony has shown they are willing to dump a ton of high end features into an entry level FF mirrorless with the A73. That is refreshing.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mbell1975
Member
248 posts
Likes: 61
Joined Jul 2018
Post edited over 1 year ago by Mbell1975. (2 edits in all)
     
Aug 08, 2018 16:51 |  #131
bannedPermanent ban

Hogloff wrote in post #18680337 (external link)
Sure when lighting is not challenging or AF is not challenging then just about any camera will do. Get away from “nice conditions” and you’ll quickly appreciate the more advanced cameras abilities.

Look at my two shots again. You think getting a model properly exposed in a cabana while not blowing out the hills behind her while using no flashes or strobes is easy? You think properly exposing a model on a beach in bright sunlight while also managing to get the ocean behind her not to be completely washed out isn't challenging? Its much easier with strobes, with natural light its quite challenging indeed. I wasn't even using reflectors or any type of light modifiers. Thats just straight camera and sun.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Charlie
Guess What! I'm Pregnant!
16,324 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 6364
Joined Sep 2007
     
Aug 08, 2018 17:19 |  #132

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18680392 (external link)
I can agree with that. The SL2 has the old antiquated 9pt AF system. There is no reason for that. It does have a fully functional touch tilt LCD though, and DPAF is quite amazing, face follow in live view is pretty amazing with an STM lens, so there are some good functions there, but still no reason for 9pt AF. They could have at least run the old 19pt AF from the 7D even. Canon continually plays that feature game, and it is very annoying.

Sony has shown they are willing to dump a ton of high end features into an entry level FF mirrorless with the A73. That is refreshing.

my next 3-4000 I spend on a body, I'll definitely consider Nikon and Canon, however, they have to not only work for my money, but also convince me to switch back and deal with the hassles of selling and buying.

At this point, it's highly improbable, but I'm not going to rule it out for any brand loyalty. I'm getting to the point that I'm winding down on lenses left to buy :-P, it's a good place to be gear wise. I have a few minor nitpicks like a >300g 35mm F2 or >500g 35mm f1.4, 100g pancake 50mm f2.8, 100g pancake 85mm f2.8/4, and >500g 135mm f2 (way down the list of desires). Aside from that, extremely happy with my 2 core zooms, the 12-24f4 and 28-75 f2.8. 24-240 sharp corner to corner? Sure a bit of wishful thinking.

To fight for my business, Canikon really need to tackle the small and friendly gear as mentioned, otherwise, the system is simply not for me. I've got a fund that I'm already building for the next body update, it's gotta be really compelling to make me switch from my R3 or pass up on an A9 (potential body for me). The A9 has some major holes in the video side, which have prevented me on making a move on it, was hoping the firmware updates would address...... but they have not.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
37,640 posts
Gallery: 111 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6281
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Aug 08, 2018 17:26 as a reply to  @ Charlie's post |  #133

Right now, if I were to get a Sony, it would be the a9.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,606 posts
Likes: 415
Joined Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
     
Aug 08, 2018 17:31 |  #134
bannedPermanent ban

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680398 (external link)
Look at my two shots again. You think getting a model properly exposed in a cabana while not blowing out the hills behind her while using no flashes or strobes is easy? You think properly exposing a model on a beach in bright sunlight while also managing to get the ocean behind her not to be completely washed out isn't challenging? Its much easier with strobes, with natural light its quite challenging indeed. I wasn't even using reflectors or any type of light modifiers. Thats just straight camera and sun.

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680398 (external link)
Look at my two shots again. You think getting a model properly exposed in a cabana while not blowing out the hills behind her while using no flashes or strobes is easy? You think properly exposing a model on a beach in bright sunlight while also managing to get the ocean behind her not to be completely washed out isn't challenging? Its much easier with strobes, with natural light its quite challenging indeed. I wasn't even using reflectors or any type of light modifiers. Thats just straight camera and sun.

Take that model into a very dimly lit bar and let's see the rebels shine. I've used rebels and 7d cameras and I know their high ISO limitations compared to today's full frame cameras like the Sony A73. Let's not even get into trying to accurately focus on the eyes with a fast lens.

I still claim you cannot create a comparable light kit using a DSLR system as you can using something like the A73. It's true competitor is the 5d4...not some rebel. I looked at some of your posts and I understand you just don't like mirror less, but really you are trying to tell me a rebel based kit is compatible to a A73 or A7R3 kit.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
aezoss
Senior Member
575 posts
Gallery: 76 photos
Likes: 1631
Joined Nov 2013
     
Aug 08, 2018 17:50 |  #135

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18680269 (external link)
Upfront I'll fully acknowledge that Fuji's tracking system is overly complex and thus I'm not surprised you had issues... however, if you learn to set up the camera properly to utilize it's AF system then it does a stellar job in my experience (better than my 6D did, and way easier thanks to all the extra AF points).

Good feedback, thanks. I'll dig into the manual, Youtube etc and see what I can coax out of it.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

43,055 views & 388 likes for this thread
Does mirrorless do anything for you?
FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is joejenkinsphotos
668 guests, 287 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.