Hardware question.

To be upfront i am trying to digitize some 35mm Kodachrome slides using my T3i so not true macro shots just need the hardware for macro to do it.

Right now i have a jig set up to hold the camera and slide in a fixed position.
Current hardware on camera is the 18-55 kit lens equipped with a screw on +10 diopter filter; light source is a 500w halogen work light reflected off a white wall; shooting in raw and AV mode with ISO set to 400.

Not problems: color shift and about 2/3 stop over exposed.

The problem is lack of sharp focus. Currently at F11 and camera will not focus at F16. Live view crashes when the subject slide is too dark. Tried 2sec delay but didn't help sharpness. Maybe first step should be a better light source to get shutter speed up

Considering revising hardware but want some opinions before laying out cash. Looking at extension tubes or real macro lens (canon 100 F2.8L) but will 1:1 be enough.

Rod

RodS57 wrote in post #18682943
To be upfront i am trying to digitize some 35mm Kodachrome slides using my T3i so not true macro shots just need the hardware for macro to do it.

Right now i have a jig set up to hold the camera and slide in a fixed position.
Current hardware on camera is the 18-55 kit lens equipped with a screw on +10 diopter filter; light source is a 500w halogen work light reflected off a white wall; shooting in raw and AV mode with ISO set to 400.

Not problems: color shift and about 2/3 stop over exposed.

The problem is lack of sharp focus. Currently at F11 and camera will not focus at F16. Live view crashes when the subject slide is too dark. Tried 2sec delay but didn't help sharpness. Maybe first step should be a better light source to get shutter speed up

Considering revising hardware but want some opinions before laying out cash. Looking at extension tubes or real macro lens (canon 100 F2.8L) but will 1:1 be enough.

Rod

You are shooting a crop camera, right? Get the EFs 60mm f/2.8 macro. The full frame coverage and IS of the 100L offer you nothing for this shoot.

What is the point of a diopter filter; to mess up your focus? I don't get it.

Shutter speed doesn't matter if you're shooting from a stable rig. F/11 and f/16 are likely well into DLA for that camera. Shoot at f/4 to f/5.6. You don't need DOF for a flat subject, just good focus. The 60mm macro, and the T3i are at their best at f/4-5.6.

Have you considered scanning your prints?

I would definitely upgrade to either the 60MM macro or 100mm macro. It will give you much better image quality and at least the 100mm macro lens is designed to focus flat (center and corners are in focus).

For the slides, I built a tube (cardboard wrapped in duct tape) with a filter holder on one end and a slide tray on the other. It screws to the front of the 100mm. Put a slide in the holder on the other end, aim at the sun and take away. No motion blur at all as the slide is attached to the lens.

Bassat wrote in post #18682955
You are shooting a crop camera, right? Get the EFs 60mm f/2.8 macro. The full frame coverage and IS of the 100L offer you nothing for this shoot.

What is the point of a diopter filter; to mess up your focus? I don't get it.

Shutter speed doesn't matter if you're shooting from a stable rig. F/11 and f/16 are likely well into DLA for that camera. Shoot at f/4 to f/5.6. You don't need DOF for a flat subject, just good focus. The 60mm macro, and the T3i are at their best at f/4-5.6.

Have you considered scanning your prints?

The diopter filter is a magnifying glass. I am shooting 4 inches from the slide and at 55mm can't get the all the cardboard slide mount in view.

I can scan prints ok but not slides. I'm in canada so a good scanner can set me back $800 or more. The 100 F2.8L is on sale for a grand.

Will look into the 60mm but i prefer not to buy aps-c glass just in case maybe some day i will move to FF

Thanks

Rod

gjl711 wrote in post #18682976
I would definitely upgrade to either the 60MM macro or 100mm macro. It will give you much better image quality and at least the 100mm macro lens is designed to focus flat (center and corners are in focus).

For the slides, I built a tube (cardboard wrapped in duct tape) with a filter holder on one end and a slide tray on the other. It screws to the front of the 100mm. Put a slide in the holder on the other end, aim at the sun and take away. No motion blur at all as the slide is attached to the lens.

Cool. I've seen similar for sale (amazon I think). How did you determine the length of the tube? Trial and error I assume.
I had read an article about mounting the camera so that is what stuck in my head. If I get a bigger/longer lens then i will have to rework my rig as it is made to fit the one lens. Not a big deal: remove 4 screws and shift the slide support.

What you have done is playing on mind now. Taking inventory to see what I have in stock to do the same.

Thanks.

Rod

RodS57 wrote in post #18682991
The diopter filter is a magnifying glass. I am shooting 4 inches from the slide and at 55mm can't get the all the cardboard slide mount in view.

I can scan prints ok but not slides. I'm in canada so a good scanner can set me back $800 or more. The 100 F2.8L is on sale for a grand.

Will look into the 60mm but i prefer not to buy aps-c glass just in case maybe some day i will move to FF

Thanks

Rod

The first sentence makes no sense to me. You are essentially chasing top-flight IQ, and putting an extra piece of (questionable?) glass in the way. Remove it. Back up suffienctly to frame the subject with the lens dialed to about 35mm. Max zoom on just about EVERY zoom is where you find the worst IQ. F/11-16 is not helping your IQ.

You don't need the 100L for this job. Nice lens, but the 50mm half-macro will do the job, as will the efs 60mm, or any other inexpensive macro (Tamron 90, Sigma 105, etc.).

Canada doesn't have slide scanners? They are all over US Amazon.com site for less than $200. Many more for less than $100.

Your logic re: the 60mm lens strikes me as way odd. "I prefer not to buy a cheap car because someday I'll be able to afford a Maserati." So you walk?

If you don't want to buy a macro lens for now, you should be able to get the 18-55mm to work with the correct diopter. Diopters come in different strengths, and I don't know off the top of my head what strength you would need to get to 1:1. Diopters are confusing things. If you can't get close enough with yours, then it is the wrong one.

BTW, diopters are supplementary lenses, not filters. They look like filters, they screw on like filters, but they don't filter anything.

With the right diopter (you could also try extension tubes), you should be able to get to 1:1. Then your issues become holding your gear, and light.

The ideal way to light it would be by electronic flash. It has the right color temperature. Getting the light very even might not be easy. You could rig up a light box with translucent plastic. That would work great, but would require time and effort to make.

Maybe have a look at eBay and see if you could snag an old Illumitran. They were pro level slide duplicators back in film days, and should work great for copying slides to a DSLR. They solve both the lighting and support issues. IIRC those Illumitrans were designed to work with bellows. These days bellows are rare, but you should be able to rig something up to work with it.

Besides that, gjl711's idea is good, and there are cheap slide duplicators on the market. You would just have to finagle a light source. If you are going with incandescent, it will be orange to the camera. Of course that can be corrected in post, but the blue layer will be underexposed and might be noisy. So I would look for a light closer to daylight, or put a blue filter on the lens.

I should add that getting top results digitizing slides is not easy if you don't have the right equipment, so prepare yourself for some effort.

RodS57 wrote in post #18683000
Cool. I've seen similar for sale (amazon I think).

Opteka makes one similar. The only real difference between the Opteka one and my home made one is that I do not have the 10x Diopter Macro Lens.

RodS57 wrote in post #18683000
How did you determine the length of the tube? Trial and error I assume.

The tube is adjustable, it slides, not easily, but you can slide it about 2~3 inches. The length I set to the minimum focus distance of the 100mm lens. That way the slide fills the sensor so I don't have to crop much.

Archibald wrote in post #18683029
If you don't want to buy a macro lens for now, you should be able to get the 18-55mm to work with the correct diopter. Diopters come in different strengths, and I don't know off the top of my head what strength you would need to get to 1:1. Diopters are confusing things. If you can't get close enough with yours, then it is the wrong one.

BTW, diopters are supplementary lenses, not filters. They look like filters, they screw on like filters, but they don't filter anything.

With the right diopter (you could also try extension tubes), you should be able to get to 1:1. Then your issues become holding your gear, and light.

The ideal way to light it would be by electronic flash. It has the right color temperature. Getting the light very even might not be easy. You could rig up a light box with translucent plastic. That would work great, but would require time and effort to make.

Maybe have a look at eBay and see if you could snag an old Illumitran. They were pro level slide duplicators back in film days, and should work great for copying slides to a DSLR. They solve both the lighting and support issues. IIRC those Illumitrans were designed to work with bellows. These days bellows are rare, but you should be able to rig something up to work with it.

Besides that, gjl711's idea is good, and there are cheap slide duplicators on the market. You would just have to finagle a light source. If you are going with incandescent, it will be orange to the camera. Of course that can be corrected in post, but the blue layer will be underexposed and might be noisy. So I would look for a light closer to daylight, or put a blue filter on the lens.

See, there is a reason to post here. - Flash, i have two manual units from my film days as well as a wireless trigger. Plug the manual flash into the trigger and on board flash will control things. Not sure my old flashes will work in the hot shoe, they have none of the connections in the foot that new flash units have.

Can you expand your reference to extension tubes. What I have read creates more questions then it answers. I understand the principle behind what they do and why but I haven't found hard numbers as to magnification to FL ratio. I like the idea of using tubes - no cheap glass in the way. Now if I could just try a couple to find out which ones I need.

Thanks

Rod

Bassat wrote in post #18683021
The first sentence makes no sense to me. You are essentially chasing top-flight IQ, and putting an extra piece of (questionable?) glass in the way. Remove it. Back up suffienctly to frame the subject with the lens dialed to about 35mm. Max zoom on just about EVERY zoom is where you find the worst IQ. F/11-16 is not helping your IQ.

You don't need the 100L for this job. Nice lens, but the 50mm half-macro will do the job, as will the efs 60mm, or any other inexpensive macro (Tamron 90, Sigma 105, etc.).

Canada doesn't have slide scanners? They are all over US Amazon.com site for less than $200. Many more for less than $100.

Your logic re: the 60mm lens strikes me as way odd. "I prefer not to buy a cheap car because someday I'll be able to afford a Maserati." So you walk?

Well, I explained what I was doing and what I was using as well as the results and my ideas for correcting the 'issues'. I can't get close enough to fill the frame without the extra glass. Just throwing things out on the table. I appreciate you taking the time to dissect things. I am more than willing to keep my purchases to a minimum.

I have a $100 slide scanner. The results are the reason I am spending the time trying to find a better solution.

My logic is simple: I can buy a slide scanner and when I am finished scanning slides I have a useless piece of hardware. A good lens will live on. So this project is the incentive to buy something that expands my capabilities.

Does Maserati make pick-up trucks. I really need a truck.

Rod

Bassat wrote in post #18683021
The first sentence makes no sense to me. You are essentially chasing top-flight IQ, and putting an extra piece of (questionable?) glass in the way. Remove it. Back up suffienctly to frame the subject with the lens dialed to about 35mm. Max zoom on just about EVERY zoom is where you find the worst IQ. F/11-16 is not helping your IQ.

You don't need the 100L for this job. Nice lens, but the 50mm half-macro will do the job, as will the efs 60mm, or any other inexpensive macro (Tamron 90, Sigma 105, etc.).

Canada doesn't have slide scanners? They are all over US Amazon.com site for less than $200. Many more for less than $100.

Your logic re: the 60mm lens strikes me as way odd. "I prefer not to buy a cheap car because someday I'll be able to afford a Maserati." So you walk?

Just looked at the EF-S 60mm macro and will add to the list of options. Due to the size and min focus distance it requires no adjustments to my current set-up. BIG plus. Had overlooked it as an option. Thanks for pointing it out.

Rod

RodS57 wrote in post #18683059
See, there is a reason to post here. - Flash, i have two manual units from my film days as well as a wireless trigger. Plug the manual flash into the trigger and on board flash will control things. Not sure my old flashes will work in the hot shoe, they have none of the connections in the foot that new flash units have.

Can you expand your reference to extension tubes. What I have read creates more questions then it answers. I understand the principle behind what they do and why but I haven't found hard numbers as to magnification to FL ratio. I like the idea of using tubes - no cheap glass in the way. Now if I could just try a couple to find out which ones I need.

Thanks

Rod

According to the manual for the 18-55mm STM, you can get to 1:1 magnification with the 25mm extension tube. Most of us don't buy Canon tubes. Kenko makes excellent tubes; others also make some that might be OK.

The Canon 250D and 500D closeup lenses won't get to 1:1. One of the Raynox closeup lenses might, but Raynox literature is very confusing, so it is not clear.

Closeup lenses give excellent results if they are apochromatic. Using tubes can also give excellent results. Tubes don't necessarily give better results just because there is no glass in them, because they force the lens to work at distances the lens was not designed for. Tubes and closeup lenses will both affect performance, but exactly how we don't know. But both will probably be OK.

Directing flash onto white paper should work fine, but pay attention to evenness of the light. Back-lighting the paper should also work.

The 60mm macro is great and will be much handier than the 18-55. But of course it is expensive. If you are going to buy a macro lens, then consider if you might get into other macro photography. That could influence your choice of lens. The main issues with macro lenses are working distance and IS (or absence of IS). Working distance is measured from the front of the hood-less lens to the subject. These might not be issues for you, though.

RodS57 wrote in post #18683071
My logic is simple: I can buy a slide scanner and when I am finished scanning slides I have a useless piece of hardware. A good lens will live on. So this project is the incentive to buy something that expands my capabilities.

A used scanner is not useless. Resell it to someone like yourself who needs to scan slides.