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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
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EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
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samueli
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Sep 06, 2018 17:03 |  #226

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18701949 (external link)
Correct... Somebody pops a 24mm lens on the camera, and they get a 4K video at 40mm. They would have to go to a 14mm lens, and a) that is a bit difficult to do, selections are thin and b) then one has to deal with any distortion that might occur with the UWA, and c) one would have to have basically 2 lenses, one for video and one for stills.

But the actual video quality will be very good... I still have my super saucy Tokina 11-16, but EF-S will be a crop of that crop? I'm trying to come up with a reason to get on the pre-order train. I'm sure it will be a lovely landscape camera, which I would enjoy.




  
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Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 06, 2018 17:06 |  #227

samueli wrote in post #18701953 (external link)
But the actual video quality will be very good... I still have my super saucy Tokina 11-16, but EF-S will be a crop of that crop? I'm trying to come up with a reason to get on the pre-order train. I'm sure it will be a lovely landscape camera, which I would enjoy.

The Tokina isn't an EFS lens despite it being designed to work with crop bodies, it will register as an EF lens. So when you shoot at 15-16mm on the EOS-R, it will crop to a 27mm view, not a 46mm view. Only Canon makes EFS lenses and that special mount, no other manufacturer does.


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WilsonFlyer
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Sep 06, 2018 17:07 |  #228

And to think of all the times I started to sell my EF-S 10-22. Whew! Dodged a bullet on that one.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 17:09 |  #229

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18701958 (external link)
And to think of all the times I started to sell my EF-S 10-22. Whew! Dodged a bullet on that one.

Yes, that should now be an interesting lens to use on the EOS-R. :)

Also imagine the 17-55 2.8 IS... ;) Of course now that there is the 24-70 f4 IS, this is less interesting.

I would love to see how the 55-250 STM would work on the EOS-R. I think it might work pretty well in fact. The EOS-R with adapter has at least opened up EFS glass to the FF without having to do any mods to the rear of the lens, or using any kind of tube or 1.4x TC.


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Sep 06, 2018 17:11 |  #230

davinci953 wrote in post #18701944 (external link)
It's been interesting to watch the evolution of camera gear. I was pretty jazzed when I first got my Nikon FE with a motor drive and aperture priority auto-exposure. Everything else was manual. The feature set was pretty limited (I guess I'm dating myself here.). It's somewhat funny to look at the specs on the cameras that are now available and see people complain with such wailing and gnashing of teeth about what spec or feature the camera doesn't have. I know the feature set is all relative, and well, people need something to complain about (first world complaints at that). The EOS R looks to be a quite capable camera and probably a lot more camera than the average user needs or will ever use. Part of what's noteworthy with this release is that Canon released a EOS R ecosystem, not just a camera body. Kudos to them for taking that approach. Will I buy it? Probably not. I simply don't need any more gear (famous last words). But it has perked my interest to see what might come in the EOS R Mark II, or whatever else Canon has waiting in the wings :-).

how patient are you?

consider that some folks wanted the original 6D to have dual card slots. That camera was announced in 2012, and the EOS-R is arguably the successor. So currently, we're at the 6 year mark, how many more are you willing to wait for the features you want?

or will you simply pay for a grade higher camera that offers such feature?

How long will you wait for IBIS, which Nikon and Sony offer? or simply make due?

it's your hard earned money, you should definitely look into this.

samueli wrote in post #18701945 (external link)
So the crop is going to be 3840 x 2160 taken from the middle of the 6720 x 4480 max resolution for 1:1 pixels in 4k?

Makes me think that video quality will be quite alright, but the crop and relative lens range is the distraction.

that's the easy way to tackle 4K, least intensive, and what Canon does. Most obvious problem with this is having at least two lenses for a hybrid shooter, one for stills and one for video. Buying a FF camera that behaves as a crop is somewhat disturbing, but it's video, and not many folks care about video.

The newly release Fuji X-T3 has jaw dropping video specs, 4K60, 10 bit internal, H265 codec...... truly next generation specs. I'm hoping this would push the envelope for all.


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Post edited over 1 year ago by WilsonFlyer.
     
Sep 06, 2018 17:17 |  #231

The problem is that the next one that's coming is already mostly developed and probably really is the A7-III killer. It will be as good or better spec-wise and will (obviously) have Canon's color science. My bet is we'll see it inside 3-6 months.

But Canon will boot it at us at $3599 which is totally ridiculous given the bar set by Sony. The fanboys and pros will eat it up and meanwhile, those of us that don't make a living with our cameras are once again left out in the cold waiting 12 months for prices to drop to a reasonable level, even on the gray market.

Meanwhile, Sony releases Gen 4. Rinse and repeat. It's a vicious cycle. vmad

THIS should have been FULLY that camera and it should have been at a $2k pricepoint and yet here we are. Welcome to the World of Canon.




  
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Post edited over 1 year ago by artsf. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 06, 2018 17:20 |  #232

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18701949 (external link)
Correct... Somebody pops a 24mm lens on the camera, and they get a 4K video at 40mm. They would have to go to a 14mm lens, and a) that is a bit difficult to do, selections are thin and b) then one has to deal with any distortion that might occur with the UWA, and c) one would have to have basically 2 lenses, one for video and one for stills.

I’ve been shooting 4k video with 5div for over a year and the quality right out of camera is outstanding and looks much better than the 4k video I was getting out of A7rii in crop mode. I expect EOS R to have exact same video quality if not better. One of the issues shooting 4k with 5div is huge AF points and very few of the basically and of course no eye detect for closeup face videos wide open. I am still waiting on user experience reprots from EOS R when it comes to AF in 4k.
I don’t change lenses when I shoot with 5div. I came to appreciate tighter perspective for 4k video. I can always switch to 1080p for wide angle shots which are a few. When editing and outputting to 4k, I can barely detect any difference. IMO, 4k is more inportant to show details, closeup shots, but for wide angle shots it is perharps less important.
Folks are too hung up on comparing 4k video sharpness between cameras. There are many more important parameters for most video shooters that don’t shoot in controlled environment:
1. Smooth and natural AF transitions. In 4k, it is extremely noticeable and DPAF does brilliant job that Sony can’t match yet when viewing on large screen tv.
2. Smooth and natural exposure transitions. Again, Canon excels at this.
3. Smooth and natural AWB transitions. IMO, no one can touch Canon on this.
4. Smooth highlights rolloff. New Canon cameras are excellent at this instead of harsh video look we often get from other brands.
5. Natural colors that are soft-cinema like colors. Canon puts their cinema color science in recent cams and it is insanely good. You’ll have to do a whole ton of annoying color corrections with mots other cams. You can mix and match files from Canon cinema line and dslr w/o any additional editing. Sony is stingy and not giving us their Venice color science, probably to protect their cinema line.

All of the above are that much more important than crop factor if you value your time and want your videos look as good as your stills.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 17:21 as a reply to  @ artsf's post |  #233

Good point(s).




  
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Two Hot Shoes.
     
Sep 06, 2018 17:22 |  #234

Charlie wrote in post #18701961 (external link)
The newly release Fuji X-T3 has jaw dropping video specs, 4K60, 10 bit internal, H265 codec...... truly next generation specs. I'm hoping this would push the envelope for all.

Not to mention 400Mb/s out with the H265, a very efficient, codec & 4:2:0 internal (4:2:2 out) Also it has dual UHS-ii slots  :p

Having said that Canon's DPAF is pretty awesome in use just a pity you have to pay $$$$ to get it with solid video output, would have been nice if they blew the curve a little with the R


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Sep 06, 2018 17:26 |  #235

The other thing is that Canon COULD offer 4k/60 in a firmware upgrade knowing full well the only reason it's not in here is because it wasn't ready. Fuji does stuff like this ALL the time. But alas, Canon won't. They're not going to "give us" crap as history has proven unless we're willing to pay for it. They could address the cropped 4k also, but they won't.

These are the abstracts that have made me threaten to jump ship since the A7III was released.

Damn. Now I'm doing it all over again.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 17:31 |  #236

Charlie wrote in post #18701961 (external link)
how patient are you?

consider that some folks wanted the original 6D to have dual card slots. That camera was announced in 2012, and the EOS-R is arguably the successor. So currently, we're at the 6 year mark, how many more are you willing to wait for the features you want?

or will you simply pay for a grade higher camera that offers such feature?

How long will you wait for IBIS, which Nikon and Sony offer? or simply make due?

it's your hard earned money, you should definitely look into this.

I can be fairly patient. If I absolutely needed those features now, I would look at the cameras that offer them. I'm not in the market for any new gear, so the EOS R feature set compared to other cameras is cursory for me. But I do understand that there is some disappointment with the EOS R features compared to other cameras. As I said, it's all relative. I wouldn't be surprised either if Canon released a EOS R model with higher specs in the next 12 months.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 17:32 |  #237

And what about cannibalizing the low hanging fruit in their "cinema" line? It's the elephant in the room that virtually no other manufacturer has to (gets to) deal with. Nobody ever talks about that. That's part of the reason the video is never up to par with everybody else. They're the SAME cameras! It COULD be done.

To those of you lost in the world of still frame, I salute you, but the rest of us have moved on. I lived there too until I bought one of the first Nex's and discovered (really for the first time) the world opened by capturing motion.

Many of us now shoot both now, especially during vacations and day to day casual shooting, and we want what we want. Nobody should get to decide whether we "need" it or not, including Canon, and they shouldn't penalize us just because they think they can.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 17:36 |  #238

Charlie wrote in post #18701961 (external link)
how patient are you?

consider that some folks wanted the original 6D to have dual card slots. That camera was announced in 2012, and the EOS-R is arguably the successor. So currently, we're at the 6 year mark, how many more are you willing to wait for the features you want?

or will you simply pay for a grade higher camera that offers such feature?

How long will you wait for IBIS, which Nikon and Sony offer? or simply make due?

I was never really concerned with IBIS. I use a tripod often, even if it's the smaller Gorilla. The enjoyable side of photography for me is slower paced.

it's your hard earned money, you should definitely look into this.

that's the easy way to tackle 4K, least intensive, and what Canon does. Most obvious problem with this is having at least two lenses for a hybrid shooter, one for stills and one for video. Buying a FF camera that behaves as a crop is somewhat disturbing, but it's video, and not many folks care about video.

I agree it's disturbing. My photography and video are done purposely ATM; one or the other. Having better video capabilities could change that.

The newly release Fuji X-T3 has jaw dropping video specs, 4K60, 10 bit internal, H265 codec...... truly next generation specs. I'm hoping this would push the envelope for all.

If the X-T3's screen was more flippy, I'd be on it. I still might be on it.




  
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samueli
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Sep 06, 2018 17:40 |  #239

artsf wrote in post #18701964 (external link)
I’ve been shooting 4k video with 5div for over a year and the quality right out of camera is outstanding and looks much better than the 4k video I was getting out of A7rii in crop mode. I expect EOS R to have exact same video quality if not better. One of the issues shooting 4k with 5div is huge AF points and very few of the basically and of course no eye detect for closeup face videos wide open. I am still waiting on user experience reprots from EOS R when it comes to AF in 4k.
I don’t change lenses when I shoot with 5div. I came to appreciate tighter perspective for 4k video. I can always switch to 1080p for wide angle shots which are a few. When editing and outputting to 4k, I can barely detect any difference. IMO, 4k is more inportant to show details, closeup shots, but for wide angle shots it is perharps less important.
Folks are too hung up on comparing 4k video sharpness between cameras. There are many more important parameters for most video shooters that don’t shoot in controlled environment:
1. Smooth and natural AF transitions. In 4k, it is extremely noticeable and DPAF does brilliant job that Sony can’t match yet when viewing on large screen tv.
2. Smooth and natural exposure transitions. Again, Canon excels at this.
3. Smooth and natural AWB transitions. IMO, no one can touch Canon on this.
4. Smooth highlights rolloff. New Canon cameras are excellent at this instead of harsh video look we often get from other brands.
5. Natural colors that are soft-cinema like colors. Canon puts their cinema color science in recent cams and it is insanely good. You’ll have to do a whole ton of annoying color corrections with mots other cams. You can mix and match files from Canon cinema line and dslr w/o any additional editing. Sony is stingy and not giving us their Venice color science, probably to protect their cinema line.

All of the above are that much more important than crop factor if you value your time and want your videos look as good as your stills.

I'm happy to hear your positive reply on this. I'm so thinking that the video will be workable for me, for interview style work mixed with modest creativity.




  
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Post edited over 1 year ago by samueli. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 06, 2018 17:43 |  #240

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18701967 (external link)
The other thing is that Canon COULD offer 4k/60 in a firmware upgrade knowing full well the only reason it's not in here is because it wasn't ready. Fuji does stuff like this ALL the time. But alas, Canon won't. They're not going to "give us" crap as history has proven unless we're willing to pay for it. They could address the cropped 4k also, but they won't.

These are the abstracts that have made me threaten to jump ship since the A7III was released.

Damn. Now I'm doing it all over again.


I can't jump ship; it's just not cost effective with lenses. I'm toying the X-T3 idea, but I'd likely never own more than the kit lens for it, and that would be a waste of a nice body.

In the end, my images will be similar regardless of brand.




  
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