EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

samueli wrote in post #18702432
Yep, this morning I was thinking about lighting as well. This release makes me sick to my stomach. The only choice for me is to stick with my 5DIII until the pro version comes out and see if they address the 4K video crop.

If I didn't have an interest in standard 2018 camera video performance, I'd possibly get this camera for landscape photography.

Thats why I switched to Godox years ago... $60 trigger for any type of camera company out there fires my exact same lights. I have fuji trigger, sony trigger and canon trigger and they all fire the lights and can do so in real time while one fires the other can still fire etc.

Bassat wrote in post #18702453
Note to self: Do NOT buy Talley's 80D! ߘ

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18702466
oof, and people complain about me sharing too much personal information.

Bassat wrote in post #18702453
Note to self: Do NOT buy Talley's 80D! ߘ

*Lube not included

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18702488
The A9 (and other mirrorless bodies) can do focus peaking, which will show me exactly which parts of my subject are in sharpest focus before I take the shot. No more photos where the deer's ear or muzzle are a little bit sharper than the eye. And yes, this really, really does matter.

The A9 (and other mirrorless bodies) will do their focusing on the sensor, so that I no longer have to be at all concerned about microfocusing adjustments. This will be particularly helpful when my subjects are far from me, as optical focusing often struggles at long distances when the subject is small in the frame.

The A9 (and other Sony mirrorless bodies) have IBIS. This would be especially useful with my Sigma 300-800mm, which is unstabilized. Even when I am using proper long lens technique and mounted to a tripod, I could really use stabilization. There are times when I am at 800mm and the proper exposure calls for 1/15th of a second, or 1/10th of a second. I just can't get perfectly sharp photos at these shutter speeds at 800mm, even when doing everything right. But with IBIS, I would be able to get perfectly sharp results in the same exact scenario.

The A9 (and other mirrorless bodies) would allow me to shoot with a completely silent shutter, even in high FPS bursts. The Canon DSLRs have a silent mode that isn't really silent - it makes enough noise to spook Ruffed Grouse off of their drumming log when shooting them from a blind at extremely close range). Even worse, the Canon DSLRs won't allow me to shoot high FPS bursts when in the so-called silent mode. Sorry, but I am not interested in shooting one frame at a time.

The response I gave to your other post (written above) itemizes some of the things that the Sony offerings give us that I don't think the Canon 1DX2 or the 5D4 can match.

Thx for pointing out these advantages over the 1DX, Tom. I was going to reply similarly to Mike's challenge, but knew someone would save me from trying to be an expert in an area which I cannot claim knowledge of usage of either body.
While I am not a supporter of 'mirrorless obsoletes dSLR' (at least not yet until a number of issues are satisfactorily addressed) the benefits you listed are indeed advantages of mirrorless designs over the traditional dSLR, and the two technologies deserve a place side by side...a craftsman carpenter does not always use a single hammer or a single saw for all purposes, either!

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18702513
I think you'll find an awful lot of cinema is now shot on large sensor cameras. In the past before digital really took off the standard more or less was 35 and 70mm film, 70mm is really quite a big negative when you hold it in your hand, 65mm of frame width & lets not go into 70mm IMAX. The technology for allowing a similar width is only lately beginning to appear, the Alexa 65 was only introduced in 2014. That might change in the next few years though

In reality there is no standard in cinema as systems will be used depending on the need for camera placement & use. There is a reason to shoot large sensor sizes and a reason not to even within the same project.

But those "full frame" cinema sensors are not the same as stills 35mm FF. The Red Helium, for example, has a sensor size of 15.8 x 30.7mm. If you look at technical specs of movies on IMDB, you'll see more movies being filmed on systems like Arri Alexa. I recently listened to a cinematographer discussing the continued existence of 24fps. Apart from aesthetic, he also mentioned Hollywood is cheap. If a studio already has lenses and accessories for super35 cameras, they're more likely to keep them and upgrade supporting digital body.

davesrose wrote in post #18702524
But those "full frame" cinema sensors are not the same as stills 35mm FF. The Red Helium, for example, has a sensor size of 15.8 x 30.7mm. If you look at technical specs of movies on IMDB, you'll see more movies being filmed on systems like Arri Alexa. I recently listened to a cinematographer discussing the continued existence of 24fps. Apart from aesthetic, he also mentioned Hollywood is cheap. If a studio already has lenses and accessories for super35 cameras, they're more likely to keep them and upgrade supporting digital body.

I'm a movie purist... 24fps is a must. This new 48fps they want to do is not going to be well for me

Yes, movie frame rates are different than TV.

I have a 135" projector setup and love watching movies at their native 24fps. So movie like. Love it.

I guess I missed what samueli was talking about then, because on another reply somewhere on this thread or another, it was raised as a concern about EFS and the 1.7 4K video mode.

What I was trying to discuss was that the EOS-R will detect EFS lenses being mounted and will crop out the 1.6 factor. However it seems some think that the video mode with an EFS lens will then crop 1.7 yet again. That won't happen. No 1.6 x 1.7 cropping will occur with EFS glass...

There is a video where the photographer walks around doing a selfie 4K video using the 10-18 and it is very wide. This shows that there isn't a double crop occurring. So I suspect that the 10-18, or 10-22 will become pretty useful for 4K video on the EOS-R... Something that isn't attainable with the 5D4.

Wilt wrote in post #18702523
Thx for pointing out these advantages over the 1DX, Tom. I was going to reply similarly to Mike's challenge, but knew someone would save me from trying to be an expert in an area which I cannot claim knowledge of usage of either body.

I just dont see this as a significant enough reason to spend thousands on a new camera and a lens line up for these little features that may or may not be an actual perk

I dont shoot at 800MM very often but when i do, its sharp on a 1Dx2. Dont discount servo use. There is nothing better on the market than the 1DX2 and the D5...I have tried them both. Not so sure you will be using Eye focus at 800MM for deers, but I could be wrong

I think everyone is making a way big overdue with eye focus. Sure its a nice feature. But I have zero issues hitting focus the old way and I hit moving targets every weekend at F2.0 or below and again, with no problems, on the 1Dx2. 5D4 will miss where as the 1Dx2 will not

Micro adjust is a PITA. so advantage to the mirrorless sensor. It that enough and worth the money your going to spend to have that feature ? For me No.

My opinion is that bodies matter. They do different things and perform differently and with todays advancements, there is something there for everyone and just about every need.

For me, I would not spend Thousands for these small features when I could invest 2K more and have a flawless body to meet darn near every need you could possibly have and not have to reinvest in glass when you already have it in your bag.....But thats me

I have always hear that IBIS just isn't that useful for longer lenses. So IBIS with a 300-800 maybe won't help much at all. This is why Canon has stuck to their lens IS model, they wanted IS tuned to the focal lengths in question on each lens so it can make the most difference in shooting over IBIS. Perhaps that has changed over the years though?

https://photographylif​e.com …s-in-camera-stabilization

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702528
There is a video where the photographer walks around doing a selfie 4K video using the 10-18 and it is very wide. This shows that there isn't a double crop occurring. So I suspect that the 10-18, or 10-22 will become pretty useful for 4K video on the EOS-R... Something that isn't attainable with the 5D4.

Yep. Though I assume third party Canon crop lenses would be OK for 4K video on the 5D4? Sigma's 18-35 worked pretty well when I tried it (for stills) on a 5D3.

Talley wrote in post #18702527
I'm a movie purist... 24fps is a must. This new 48fps they want to do is not going to be well for me

Yes, movie frame rates are different than TV.

I have a 135" projector setup and love watching movies at their native 24fps. So movie like. Love it.

At risk of opening a whole new line of (off topic) discussion, I read an article a few years back with a video guy pointing out that the move towards ever higher video resolutions was a bad idea without also increasing the framerate. His point was that you only get 4K (or 8K) of perceived resolution when nothing is moving. As soon as there's motion (at 24fps) you lose many of the benefits.

That said - I too like the look of 24fps. I guess it's just what we're used to.

And f8 focusing on the 5D series...
And f8 focusing on the 1DX...
And uncompressed HDMI video on the 5D3...
And CLog for cinema cameras...

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702534
I have always hear that IBIS just isn't that useful for longer lenses. So IBIS with a 300-800 maybe won't help much at all. This is why Canon has stuck to their lens IS model, they wanted IS tuned to the focal lengths in question on each lens so it can make the most difference in shooting over IBIS. Perhaps that has changed over the years though?

https://photographylif​e.com …s-in-camera-stabilization

I'm sure I read an article recently (likely a few pages back in this thread) pointing to one vendor (Olympus?) now using both IBIS and optical stabilisation together. As far as I could work out from the real-world examples, 5 stops was pretty much a 100% success rate, 6 stops roughly 50/50, and there was one 20s handheld example (which I think would have been 7 stops of stabilisation, vs the 1/focal length rule).

All at wider focal lengths, admittedly.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702534
I have always hear that IBIS just isn't that useful for longer lenses. So IBIS with a 300-800 maybe won't help much at all. This is why Canon has stuck to their lens IS model, they wanted IS tuned to the focal lengths in question on each lens so it can make the most difference in shooting over IBIS. Perhaps that has changed over the years though?

The fact of the matter is that at these focal legnths, you are far better served using a tripod and Gimbel set up. Its like waving a magic want at 75 yards and trying to hit an eye socket. Laws of physics takes over and nothing about a mirrorless sensor is going to change that.

Try handholding a 100x400 with a 1.4 TC and a crop sensor and hit a moving target with any degree of success. Sure, you will get a few (maybe) but nothing with a great deal of success. Mirrorless wont change this as well

I think photographers are expecting too much from these mirrorless cameras. Put them in difficult situations to capture images and your going to find that they perform no differently than what we currently use....and they might perform worse.....especially in low ambient and dim lighting conditions.

Sure 25000 ISO is nice. 51000 even better. A big perk for wildlife shooters to have this. But the question comes to mind. How often are you in these situations and how much do you make to capture images in these situations to justify the change and costs to a Sony body ??

Anyway, I have made my point, and I will stay put until the pro update from Canon. If the new body has dual cards I might be interested depending on performance with the adapters. I am not interested in investing a ton of $$$$ R glass for the new bodies.

sploo wrote in post #18702537
Yep. Though I assume third party Canon crop lenses would be OK for 4K video on the 5D4? Sigma's 18-35 worked pretty well when I tried it (for stills) on a 5D3.

Yes, I would think so too. I could certainly try my Sigma 8-16 on the 5D4 to see what kind AOV I get.

Yes, and I read that the Oly EM series seems to be good for about 1-2 stops stabilization at 600mm or so as well, so the stabilization in-body does seem to be improving.