EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702528
I guess I missed what samueli was talking about then, because on another reply somewhere on this thread or another, it was raised as a concern about EFS and the 1.7 4K video mode.

What I was trying to discuss was that the EOS-R will detect EFS lenses being mounted and will crop out the 1.6 factor. However it seems some think that the video mode with an EFS lens will then crop 1.7 yet again. That won't happen. No 1.6 x 1.7 cropping will occur with EFS glass...

There is a video where the photographer walks around doing a selfie 4K video using the 10-18 and it is very wide. This shows that there isn't a double crop occurring. So I suspect that the 10-18, or 10-22 will become pretty useful for 4K video on the EOS-R... Something that isn't attainable with the 5D4.

awe, some lost in translation, I really dont know how the 10-18 would behave.

Kai has a video where he tested this, 11:25 in the video:




he says @10mm, with the crop factor, it should be 16mm, however it doesnt look like 16mm to me, looks more like 24mm.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702540
And f8 focusing on the 5D series...
And f8 focusing on the 1DX...
And uncompressed HDMI video on the 5D3...
And CLog for cinema cameras...

My suspicion is that f/8 focusing and uncompressed HDMI may have already been "present" and, at least in the case of f/8 focusing, likely just enabling a feature. Adding a 1.5x downsampling mode for 4K video would require more coding work. All just conjecture on my part, of course.

I do also wonder if the addition of f/8 focusing on the 5D3 was because they were embarrassed into it by Nikon's D800 (likely the 5D3 was capable, but they crippled it vs the 1Dx as they so often do). Obviously you could apply the same argument with full frame 4K video (vs the competition); which kinda makes me wonder if it is actually possible on their hardware.

I am able to do well enough without a tripod these days still.

Handheld on the 7D2 with stacked 1.4x and 2x on a Sigma 150-600 OS (2700mm equiv). The lens OS works VERY well with this particular lens, and definitely helped. Manually focused too, which was a bigger challenge than keeping the lens aimed at the moon. This is the most extreme case you could come up with over just a long lens aimed at animals on Terra prime.

I am thinking of Gordon's video https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=YnmrKfNs7S8

umphotography wrote in post #18702532
I just dont see this as a significant enough reason to spend thousands on a new camera and a lens line up for these little features that may or may not be an actual perk

I dont shoot at 800MM very often but when i do, its sharp on a 1Dx2. Dont discount servo use. There is nothing better on the market than the 1DX2 and the D5...I have tried them both. Not so sure you will be using Eye focus at 800MM for deers, but I could be wrong

I think everyone is making a way big overdue with eye focus. Sure its a nice feature. But I have zero issues hitting focus the old way and I hit moving targets every weekend at F2.0 or below and again, with no problems, on the 1Dx2. 5D4 will miss where as the 1Dx2 will not

Micro adjust is a PITA. so advantage to the mirrorless sensor. It that enough and worth the money your going to spend to have that feature ? For me No.

My opinion is that bodies matter. They do different things and perform differently and with todays advancements, there is something there for everyone and just about every need.

For me, I would not spend Thousands for these small features when I could invest 2K more and have a flawless body to meet darn near every need you could possibly have and not have to reinvest in glass when you already have it in your bag.....But thats me

I am in fundamental agreement with each of your observations about YOUR needs...your statements suit my own views as well!

• When I hear discussions about silent shutter, I am reminded of the fact that in my attending multiple weddings within the past few years as a guest (and bringing my own dSLR out for some shots for a relatively brief amount of time, to capture shots/angles not achieved by the hired guys) I honestly cannot recall thinking 'dang, that guy's camera shutter is noisy' when observing the hired guns at work! (Sure it bugs me when the video press conferences record shutter sounds that almost drown out the statements.)
  ...so is that enough and worth the money to spend to have that feature via mirrorless? For me, No.)
  
• Eye focus might be really great when set on a tripod and shooting studio portraiture, but most non-portraiture shooting distances do NOT involve razor thin DOF (even assuming 20/20 vision DOF!)...does eye tracking have all that much advantage over face tracking, when DOF is quantified in feet, and not just a few inches?
  ...so is that enough and worth the money to spend to have that feature via mirrorless? For me, No.)
  
• Focus peaking, again may have some theoretical advantages in certain circumstances, but when DOF is quantified in feet, and not just a few inches (even with a wide open large aperture lens) how often is it an advantage? (OK, shooting a video and being able to get some indication of what/who in the scene is relatively sharp and in focus can help....but I seldom shoot video,
  ...so is that enough and worth the money to spend to have that feature via mirrorless? For me, No.)
  
• I have yet to find the NEED for MFA to make my focus accurate enough...five different dSLR bodies, never once have I discovered 'dammit I need to MFA this lens!'
  ... so is that enough and worth the money to spend to eliminate the need for that feature via mirrorless? For me, No.
  

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702528
What I was trying to discuss was that the EOS-R will detect EFS lenses being mounted and will crop out the 1.6 factor. However it seems some think that the video mode with an EFS lens will then crop 1.7 yet again. That won't happen. No 1.6 x 1.7 cropping will occur with EFS glass...

I'm only interested in stills, and I think I get this - but if you slapped a 10-22 on an EOS R that was made for a crop camera, you are going to get the same field of view as you would on the crop camera? Otherwise I think you'd be talking practically a fish eye lens.

If the 5D4 sensor is being used, then I doubt FF 4K will be available. If so, I would have thought just turning on the "feature" would be a great way to further excite potential buyers in the EOS-R announcement. Then again, Canon may have this available in the architecture of the 5D4 and EOS-R, but would rather continue playing the feature lottery on their different offerings.

If they had dual slots and FF 4K video, I think the preorder rate probably would double.

patrick j wrote in post #18702554
I'm only interested in stills, and I think I get this - but if you slapped a 10-22 on an EOS R that was made for a crop camera, you are going to get the same field of view as you would on the crop camera? Otherwise I think you'd be talking practically a fish eye lens.

Basically, yes.

If the camera wasn't aware it was an EF-S lens, and captured pixels from the whole full frame, you'd likely see a porthole type effect (the middle of the image as per what you'd see with the lens mounted on an APS-C camera, with the image bleeding away as it extended towards the edges of the sensor - simply because the EF-S lens is only designed to project an image circle large enough for an APS-C sized sensor.

The above is what you'll see with some third party Canon-mount crop lenses (they still only project an APS-C sized image circle, but don't have the protrusion on the back like an EF-S lens, so are safe to mount on a FF body).

On a Canon FF in 4K cropped mode you'll only see the pixels covering an area slightly smaller than an APS-C frame (~1.7x crop vs 1.6x crop); but essentially as if you shot it on an APS-C camera.

EDIT: typo fix

patrick j wrote in post #18702554
I'm only interested in stills, and I think I get this - but if you slapped a 10-22 on an EOS R that was made for a crop camera, you are going to get the same field of view as you would on the crop camera? Otherwise I think you'd be talking practically a fish eye lens.

A) The EOS-R will detect the mounting of an EFS lens (not a 3rd party crop lens though). It will then effectively turn off/throw out all the pixels outside the 1.6 crop area on the sensor for you, effectively giving you the same visual area and resolution as something like the original 7D (19Mpx).

B) In 4K mode, the EOS-R does something similar as an effective 1.7 crop at a different aspect ratio.

I probably mistakenly took a comment in this thread or the other EOS-R that someone was afraid these two would double up when doing 4K video. But it won't since the 4K mode will effectively crop the EFS image circle out anyways for you, so A) isn't needed.

EDIT: never mind sploo said it all better

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702560
A) The EOS-R will detect the mounting of an EFS lens (not a 3rd party crop lens though). It will then effectively turn off/throw out all the pixels outside the 1.6 crop area on the sensor for you, effectively giving you the same visual area and resolution as something like the original 7D (19Mpx).

It would be nice to see a write up about how this 'detection' is accomplished...we already know that simply removal of the rubber ring behind the optics of the EF-S lens permits it to operate fully on an EF mount body (the only issue being potential interference at some FL with the flipping reflex mirror). So detection must not be via the electrical contacts (EF vs. EFS).

I would imagine that the mount adapters may have a simple button that allows the photographer to identify any 'smaller image circle' lens, so that if crop aftermarket lenses are mounted the camera can switch to crop mode.

Each lens has a known registry and the body reads that registry value to know it's an EFS lens?

Just a guess... based on EXIF storing the lens used, and lens illumination functions and AFMA have to know the lens as well.

umphotography wrote in post #18702542
The fact of the matter is that at these focal legnths, you are far better served using a tripod and Gimbel set up. Its like waving a magic want at 75 yards and trying to hit an eye socket. Laws of physics takes over and nothing about a mirrorless sensor is going to change that.

Try handholding a 100x400 with a 1.4 TC and a crop sensor and hit a moving target with any degree of success. Sure, you will get a few (maybe) but nothing with a great deal of success. Mirrorless wont change this as well

I think photographers are expecting too much from these mirrorless cameras. Put them in difficult situations to capture images and your going to find that they perform no differently than what we currently use....and they might perform worse.....especially in low ambient and dim lighting conditions.

Sure 25000 ISO is nice. 51000 even better. A big perk for wildlife shooters to have this. But the question comes to mind. How often are you in these situations and how much do you make to capture images in these situations to justify the change and costs to a Sony body ??

Anyway, I have made my point, and I will stay put until the pro update from Canon. If the new body has dual cards I might be interested depending on performance with the adapters. I am not interested in investing a ton of $$$$ R glass for the new bodies.

And a very solid point at that.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702534
I have always hear that IBIS just isn't that useful for longer lenses. So IBIS with a 300-800 maybe won't help much at all. This is why Canon has stuck to their lens IS model, they wanted IS tuned to the focal lengths in question on each lens so it can make the most difference in shooting over IBIS. Perhaps that has changed over the years though?

https://photographylif​e.com …s-in-camera-stabilization

I know the 100-400 I have that has OS the OS handles the vertical and the horizontal and the IBIS handles the angle axis. I'm not sure about the way it works but I do know it uses both together at the longer focal lengths.

I know the 200/2 mounted since it's adapted it's either the IS or the IBIS and it works fine either way. But I haven't used it longer than 200mm adapted. The 100-400 locks on at 400mm like nobody business. It's pretty good.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18702552
I am thinking of Gordon's video https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=YnmrKfNs7S8

I think he's mistaken.

attached is 1080p @ 24mm
then 4K @ 10mm

FOV looks fairly close, not the 17mm FOV I would expect from an ultrawide. IQ looks like it takes a heavy hit with the EF-S lens as well, but that could be an aperture/low light issue. It just doesnt look very good when he's vlogging with the 10-18mm lens.

I can 4K video at 12mm with autofocus using my 12-24.

Name one lens that can video with the cropped 4K 5D4 or EOS R at 12mm?

...and now this is where you respond and say "who needs to video at 12mm anyway" as the only response as justification on why you cannot absolutely not in no way can do this with any canon eos camera period.

..but you still can with the A9, A7R3, A73....