EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

CDS The Moderator:

P.S. The wonders of AMASS software have provided us new tools to use in threads like these.

I am happy to report that we no longer need to rely on suspensions when, lets' just call them "brand enthusiasts" cross into other forums for the sole purpose of hijacking, trashing a thread because it is about an "inferior brand".

I have just used these tools to remove access to the EOS forum from certain members posting in this thread.

Please feel free to contact me if you would like posting permission to the EOS forum restored.
Expect a delay. It is the weekend.

It is very easy to avoid such attention. Refrain from using the forum to insult people who don't happen to share your brand loyal ideologies, or people that simply like to play with different toys.

mdvaden wrote in post #18713459
It sounds like you may not have paid attention to several replies I put earlier.

Including that B&H photo is correct about the use of the lens I quoted them regarding. So if you think they are clearly wrong, the conclusion is that their page more broadly communicates while your idea is in a more tiny bubble of technicality.

I think he read it, I did too. It's still not an EF-S mount by definition if it can mount to an EF body.

If you happen to be open to alternative views to your steadfast opinion on what an EF-S mount is, you might want to read the Wikipedia page,
https://en.wikipedia.o​rg/wiki/Canon_EF-S_lens_mount
...the 3rd paragraph and 4th (after the list), in particular might explain why despite our "paying attention" to your several posts, we simply disagree with your own definition.


None of this really has anything to do with the question that raised this sideline, (ie: will a 3rd party lens designed to work with a Cannon APS-C body be limited to the crop mode of the EOS-R when mounted?)
...so you can call it EF-S, I will call it EF, and let's move on. Whatever we chose to call it, the question remains of the 3rd party lens will in fact be forced to be "cropped"

It is not specified if the EOS R automatically detects an EF-S lens. Non-Canon brands lenses do not use 'EF-S mount' even on their crop image circle lens designs.
We also have no details how/if the camera can automatically detect third-party crop image circle lenses.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18713461
I think he read it, I did too. It's still not an EF-S mount by definition if it can mount to an EF body.

If you happen to be open to alternative views to your steadfast opinion on what an EF-S mount is, you might want to read the Wikipedia page,
https://en.wikipedia.o​rg/wiki/Canon_EF-S_lens_mount
...the 3rd paragraph and 4th (after the list), in particular might explain why despite our "paying attention" to your several posts, we simply disagree with your own definition.

None of this really has anything to do with the question that raised this sideline, (ie: will a 3rd party lens designed to work with a Cannon APS-C body be limited to the crop mode of the EOS-R when mounted?)
...so you can call it EF-S, I will call it EF, and let's move on. Whatever we chose to call it, the question remains of the 3rd party lens will in fact be forced to be "cropped"

Correct. You are confirming the same thing, that it's not an "EF-S" lens in model but that certain ones can fit an EF-S mount just like B&H stated at their site. If you read what I wrote, you will also see the reference to figures of speech which people legitimately use in writing. I have already read the Wiki page before, so old news there.

About the only reason I'm even responding at this point, is it's amusing to see how stubborn certain people can be about folks like B&H photo to using figures of speech or generalized terms to effectively communicate and describe products.

The matter is somewhat comparable to detail-pickers trying to correct somebody for advertising a Kirby "vaccuum" when it's technically not a vaccuum. Meanwhile, the rest of the normal world will know what the seller meant, and probably won't say "you are wrong, it's a vacuum cleaner!.

Wilt wrote in post #18713466
It is not specified if the EOS R automatically detects an EF-S lens. Non-Canon brands lenses do not use 'EF-S mount' even on their crop image circle lens designs.
We also have no details how/if the camera can automatically detect third-party crop image circle lenses.

Do you mean detect in the sense of changing operation with that type of lens compared to the RF?

Odds are it will record a model to EXIF data.

I've seen a few sources saying that an EF-S (mount) will inhibit FF mode (the highest selectable crop is super-35).

Everything you need to know about Canon’s EOS R mirrorless camera

"The three new EF to RS lens adapters, meanwhile, will let you use any EF and even EF-S lenses (with a crop on the latter) with no loss in quality. You'll also get full autofocus, stabilization and metering capabilities, so you won't be left in the lurch if you already have a lot of Canon glass. Canon also introduced a lens adapters for drop in neutral density and other filters, and another with a control ring much like the one on the new RF lenses. All of those will let you use EF and EF-S lenses exactly as if they're on a 5D Mark IV or other DSLR, Canon promised."

davesrose wrote in post #18713480
I've seen a few sources saying that an EF-S (mount) will inhibit FF mode (the highest selectable crop is super-35).

Everything you need to know about Canon’s EOS R mirrorless camera

So are you ready to buy one?

I'm ready enough that I put my 5DS on ad yesterday. But I removed it from ad this morning realizing there's features about the 5DS I may want to keep anyway. And I will probably just pay out the extra money for the EOS R. It's just a matter of timing. Do I order soon and enjoy the first new body, wait for a used one, or get the next model in order.

The lenses have me somewhat stoked too.

Oh dear, looks like I caused a bit of a drama...

Thinking about it, it's likely that the camera will decide to go into crop mode based on the physical attributes of the mount, in which case all of those third party lenses designed for a crop body will be ok.

Of course, it could decide to go into crop mode based on the attributes of the image circle although that seems very unlikely and means those lenses with wider image circles at certain focal lengths would probably be fine anyway.

I obviously didn't think it through properly (I'll blame alcohol and bedtime )

Got a bit turned around there with the arguing, but is seems to me from the earlier description, that the EOS R EF adaptor converter is actually an EF-S mount, so will therefore take both EF and EF-S lenses, rather than an EF mount which will only accept EF Lenses? Which makes a lot of sense and is brilliant if true for consumers, why make and buy two adaptors when one will do, but, the adaptor is set up to work with the FF focal length, hence the crop when using EF-s lenses? So an EF-S mount with an EF focal range? That's a great idea if true, they could easily have potentially forced people to buy two adaptors....

Seems many are getting way to stuck on semantics. A EF-s lens is a EF mount, period, it is a "EF"-s lens though. Only difference is how close the rear element sits back. You can put a EF-s lens on a 5D or an older asp-h 1D but you run the risk of the mirror hitting the rear of the lens. I have not used the Sigma but I would assume that it is a lens with a EF mount (same mount as a 200D through 1D) but the elements are designed to only project onto a a asp-c sensor.

EF is the mount, ef-s is type of lens using a EF mount.

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #18713515
Got a bit turned around there with the arguing, but is seems to me from the earlier description, that the EOS R EF adaptor converter is actually an EF-S mount, so will therefore take both EF and EF-S lenses, rather than an EF mount which will only accept EF Lenses? .....

Correct, the Adapter will work with both lens mounts, and the EOS-R will make use of both, employing a crop mode with Canon EF-S mount lenses.

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #18713515
Got a bit turned around there with the arguing, but is seems to me from the earlier description, that the EOS R EF adaptor converter is actually an EF-S mount, so will therefore take both EF and EF-S lenses, rather than an EF mount which will only accept EF Lenses? Which makes a lot of sense and is brilliant if true for consumers, why make and buy two adaptors when one will do, but, the adaptor is set up to work with the FF focal length, hence the crop when using EF-s lenses? So an EF-S mount with an EF focal range? That's a great idea if true, they could easily have potentially forced people to buy two adaptors....

There is no mirror to hit the rear element of the EF-S lens so no need to prevent EF-S being mounted.
Focal length is irrelevant, the smaller image circle of an EF-S lens is the reason for cropping.

Phew, came out of that argument with the right understanding then I think that's a great touch by Canon ( Whoops, nearly strayed into Fanboy territory there, don't want to start another spat, errrmm go Kodak! )

Strick wrote in post #18713518
.. You can put a EF-s lens on a 5D or an older asp-h 1D but you run the risk of the mirror hitting the rear of the lens. ...

No, you can't. It won't mount.

You CAN modify an EF-S mount lens to fit an EF mount body, but it is often no simple task.
It's difference is not semantics when the two are NOT physically interchangeable.

I'll post the link to the EF-S mount page again, maybe it would help to understand?
https://en.wikipedia.o​rg/wiki/Canon_EF-S_lens_mount

Also, take a look at this Public Service Announcement created just for you;
https://suggestionofmo​tion.com/blog/canon-efs-vs-apsc/

Wow it is easy to understand that the EFS designation is one of physical design, ie the lens has a different mounting mechanism than an EF lens. Not hard at all...

But neither is our corporate coffee grinder with 3 settings, and the brewer with 3 settings, but a few continue to get confused that you don't grind at 1, then brew at 3, else you end up with colored water.

You just have to shake your head and chuckle.