EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

sploo wrote in post #18713967
Far more important than anything else on this thread: please tell me that you've LS-swapped that Honda; to maintain the hybrid topic of this photo

The photo I've provided isn't so relevant to this thread regarding the EOS R "to a degree"

Due to the fact that October 9 is the release date to the average Joe.....I feel this thread is more of a research project for many Canon geeks (note: my primary is Canon). Probably few have had a true test run of weeks of handling a body. Hard to really determine a body in a demo at a camera store. Watching reviews can evoke thought but it's really a virgin unproven Canon Camera.

For many here or hardcore professionals in general already look at this camera as 2nd / 3rd system for a "taste" of Canon flavour FF mirrorless. The heavy boat anchor fresh new lenses sound truly fantastic for IQ. Lack of dual cards sounds like a broken record but it's a really big feature missing. $2999.99 ($3360 after tax) is a pretty substantial ticket price for a fist kick at mirrorless FF and leaving a highly demanded feature.

I really do think I'd be on a pre order list if the EOS R had that feature but instead for the same price I've shifted my funds for GMaster glass! Until Canon does their slow process of adding features to their Canon bodies I'll hold off on the efforts in mirrorless.

If I wanted another 2nd/3rd system/body for more casual nature I'll pick up a Fuji X-t3. I'm still taking baby steps with Sony so it's more of my serious contender to be a primary system. So far Canon mirrored system is my "GO TO" rock solid performer even though it minuses the great features of a mirrorless system.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18713936
My guess is that we will eventually find out the banding is tied to operating/sensor temps. The always on requirement, plus the all new focusing tech might be hurting IQ.

I'm not sure if it's related but may be. Yesterday on Youtube, I watched a video Jared Polin did with the Sony A7R iii and was referring to some type of harsh banding. Polin said something about it being related to the type of lights or lighting. It has me wondering whether type of lighting may be related to something Northrup mentioned in one of his videos about the EOS R, but he only goes into matters ankle deep.

Choderboy wrote in post #18713854
Nobody will be banned for stating facts,for example: Only Canon makes EF-S lenses. That's what that is, a fact.
Most people understand what a fact is and therefore don't attempt to debate them.

It seems you did not understand the nature of my reply to Joseph, and the reply was to Joseph. Previous and aside from fact, I was discussing figures of speech and writing style earlier in the thread. So I really don't care how how smart you think you are on facts. When some other people are using a combination of facts and figurative expression, I am going to look for their intent plus definitions. As for whom the users of this forum should reply or debate with, the forum rules and moderators seem to hold that authority.

kezug wrote in post #18714034
I am curious what this thread would be like when Canon released their 1st ever digital camera. Would we be comparing it to that of the best of all features of every previous canon film camera? Are we expecting too much from this new format, new technology (yes, its new...still)? Aren't we glad Canon is going mirror less?

The reaction may vary these days due to the reach of internet content. Back then, I think Youtube was absent and ideas, appreciation or disappointments didn't propagate as much or as frequently. Was your post implying that maybe people were more appreciative of whatever was new and approved back then, whereas today they may expect everyting?

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18714038
So just 7 years after release, the 5Dc dropped from over $3,000 to just $500. So just 1/6 of the original price after only 7 years. I really wish that the recent bodies would drop at the same rate.

I'm thinking (speculating) that the improvements from generation to generation of camera are not so great now as they were with the first 2 generations of FF cameras. Pretty big jump in sensor size from 5D to 5D Mk 2, less so the next couple of generations. So probably people are not feeling as much need to upgrade, so the price will stay high longer.

I'm leaning towards buying an EOS R, I'm hoping for at least a small price drop after things settle down a bit. But also thinking I can't take it with me, so probably won't give it too much time. (I'm assuming no reviews come out that just trash the camera once it gets out there in the world.)

Yesterday I made the first real use of the dual card slots in my 7Dii. Not for redundancy, but for extra capacity. I was at the NAS Oceana airshow in Virginia Beach, and for the first time ever, I filled up the first card and the camera switched to the second. Right in the middle of a burst, no less.

I was machine-gunning it at 10 FPS and shooting raw, but I was really trying not to go too crazy. Obviously I wasn't trying hard enough, but there was too much great stuff flying around: FM-2 Wildcat, F4U Corsair, F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets, F-22 Raptor, Canadian Snowbirds, USN Blue Angels... It's going to take me all winter just to go through them all!

Compare that with film. In the spring of 1993, I was living in Scotland and I went to the "Fighter Meet" airshow at North Weald Airfield, with my EOS 100 and EF 100-300 USM. I brought *FIVE* 36-exposure rolls of film with me and shot them all. I remember being incredulous afterward that I had actually taken 180 pictures in just one day! Nowadays with digital, I go to an airshow and shoot that many in the first 20 minutes.

Mike

kezug wrote in post #18714034
I am curious what this thread would be like when Canon released their 1st ever digital camera. Would we be comparing it to that of the best of all features of every previous canon film camera? Are we expecting too much from this new format, new technology (yes, its new...still)? Aren't we glad Canon is going mirror less?

First Digital? or First DSLR?
POTN was practically made for the first compact G body. It was well underway when the D30 was released.

Even though the Canon "G" compact is practically the reason POTN exists, sadly POTN was not around at the dawn of it all, it was maybe 8:30 am by the time POTN launched. Too late for the first real affordable DSLR, the D30 came out, though there are some early threads on the subject.

mcoren wrote in post #18714140
Yesterday I made the first real use of the dual card slots in my 7Dii. Not for redundancy, but for extra capacity. I was at the NAS Oceana airshow in Virginia Beach, and for the first time ever, I filled up the first card and the camera switched to the second. Right in the middle of a burst, no less.

I was machine-gunning it at 10 FPS and shooting raw, but I was really trying not to go too crazy. Obviously I wasn't trying hard enough, but there was too much great stuff flying around: FM-2 Wildcat, F4U Corsair, F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets, F-22 Raptor, Canadian Snowbirds, USN Blue Angels... It's going to take me all winter just to go through them all!

Compare that with film. In the spring of 1993, I was living in Scotland and I went to the "Fighter Meet" airshow at North Weald Airfield, with my EOS 100 and EF 100-300 USM. I brought *FIVE* 36-exposure rolls of film with me and shot them all. I remember being incredulous afterward that I had actually taken 180 pictures in just one day! Nowadays with digital, I go to an airshow and shoot that many in the first 20 minutes.

Mike

I used to always set my 1D2 to "auto switch" when I was doing serious birds in flight. Consider that cards back then were 2 or 4 GB, and like your airshow, there was a lot of "spray and pray" that I was doing. I would fly through cards back when I shooting Osprey diving in Damariscotta Maine.

AlanU wrote in post #18714113
The photo I've provided isn't so relevant to this thread regarding the EOS R "to a degree"

Due to the fact that October 9 is the release date to the average Joe.....I feel this thread is more of a research project for many Canon geeks (note: my primary is Canon). Probably few have had a true test run of weeks of handling a body. Hard to really determine a body in a demo at a camera store. Watching reviews can evoke thought but it's really a virgin unproven Canon Camera.

For many here or hardcore professionals in general already look at this camera as 2nd / 3rd system for a "taste" of Canon flavour FF mirrorless. The heavy boat anchor fresh new lenses sound truly fantastic for IQ. Lack of dual cards sounds like a broken record but it's a really big feature missing. $2999.99 ($3360 after tax) is a pretty substantial ticket price for a fist kick at mirrorless FF and leaving a highly demanded feature.

I really do think I'd be on a pre order list if the EOS R had that feature but instead for the same price I've shifted my funds for GMaster glass! Until Canon does their slow process of adding features to their Canon bodies I'll hold off on the efforts in mirrorless.

If I wanted another 2nd/3rd system/body for more casual nature I'll pick up a Fuji X-t3. I'm still taking baby steps with Sony so it's more of my serious contender to be a primary system. So far Canon mirrored system is my "GO TO" rock solid performer even though it minuses the great features of a mirrorless system.

Yup I agree

been gone this weekend for a wedding. 3K is pretty steep to just Add a mirrorless to the bag. Pros like me dont just wanna add another camera if they dont need to........Business is about balancing out costs and making profits....3K doesnt make sense for this camera. The 2 features I like

1- Adapters seems like its going to be good so thats a plus
2- complete silent shooting

is a big plus. But No dual cards kills it for me. And to be perfectly Honest, silent shooting is really over played and is really a BS perceived benefit. I have shot over 500 weddings with my obnoxiously loud 5D4, 1Dx2, 1Dx1, 5D3, 5D2,,5D original, 30D,40D, 1DMIV, 1DMK111 and MK11's for the last 14 yr.......I have never heard a single comment about my cameras making noise during a ceremony.....And I have been in a lot of churches......Photogra​phers with these mirrorless bodies really over play and hype the crap out of this perceived benefit when there really is nothing to get excited about.

Silent shooting is needed sometimes. You would not be able to shoot the US Open, for example, with any of your gear during the critical parts of the sport. There are many other examples. And people do complain about loud cameras at some ceremonies, you just don't hear it as the photographer, because people don't approach the photographer, they just mumble about it as they are seated. Depends on the people and ceremony venue, though, and it isnt frequent.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18714219
Silent shooting is needed sometimes. You would not be able to shoot the US Open, for example, with any of your gear during the critical parts of the sport.

What silent gear have photographers been using for the US Open the past decades if it can't be done without going silent? Personally, I could manage it, partly because I started my horticulture career at country clubs, and studied golfers on the courses. Between distance and timing, photos can be done with a regular DSLR. So I'll gladly step up to the job. I could do it with my 5DS, but an EOS R or similar silent body would alter the thought process. On the green, shots immediately after a stroke often look better anyway, where the ball is on it's way. No shutter sound will alter the ball's course at that point.

So I see mirrorless like the EOS R as an extra tool, and not the only tool.

umphotography wrote in post #18714215
Yup I agree

been gone this weekend for a wedding. 3K is pretty steep to just Add a mirrorless to the bag. Pros like me dont just wanna add another camera if they dont need to........Business is about balancing out costs and making profits....3K doesnt make sense for this camera. The 2 features I like

1- Adapters seems like its going to be good so thats a plus
2- complete silent shooting

is a big plus. But No dual cards kills it for me. And to be perfectly Honest, silent shooting is really over played and is really a BS perceived benefit. I have shot over 500 weddings with my obnoxiously loud 5D4, 1Dx2, 1Dx1, 5D3, 5D2,,5D original, 30D,40D, 1DMIV, 1DMK111 and MK11's for the last 14 yr.......I have never heard a single comment about my cameras making noise during a ceremony.....And I have been in a lot of churches......Photogra​phers with these mirrorless bodies really over play and hype the crap out of this perceived benefit when there really is nothing to get excited about.

I'm not sure if photography is your total work. My work is split between arboriculture, landscape consulting and photography. Regardless, what you wrote about balancing costs is something you must know best for your needs. The silent shooting tool can be over-hyped like you mentioned, and people have been accustomed to shutters for decades. The emotion, adrenaline and intensity is often so intense at ceremonies, a photographer's shutter may be the last thing a bride or groom or minister would notice. Our own wedding was done with a 35mm film camera and I can recall that our attention had virtually nothing to do with camera sound.

The dual card slot you mentioned is the closest thing to the reason I may hold off until the next model after the EOS R. But it has not made me decide not to get it yet.

I had a good talk with one of my mentors today, checking how life is for him up in Seattle. He's been into photography for about 30 years, and works for a living with electronic and optical components, so he is familiar with how stuff may be built. I was asking him about the EOS R and certain "TEA LEAF" things.

As an owner of 5D mk iv and Sony A7R iii, he replied that the EOS R will be an "awesome" camera. He added that a good number of photographers think foolishly about expecting cameras to be loaded with everything under the sun. He pointed back to around 2008 when the likes of Canon or Nikon even first introduced HD video to photography cameras. I think his point was that the video aspect complicates the perception and choices about cameras now that both are stuffed into one body.

You shooting at little clubs throughout the area isn't the same as US Open shooting, lol. You aren't going to get a shot from a long distance away at a US Open, and if you are in the player's presence, you aren't even to be shooting anything during the entire time the player is addressing the ball through the end of his swing. However that is because of the noise of cameras being disruptive, thus why they introduced the marshal signaling for no camera action during the swing. Those with silent cameras are getting away with many shots of the players because they make no sounds, and at 20fps as well, creating alot of opportunity for great shots of the drive.

Regarding weddings, again, spectators near photographers that are rattling off shots during the vows, or quieter parts of the ceremony do indeed comment on the camera noises. However they are just guests and don't matter much, and if you are the hired photographer, nobody will say anything to you. However others shooting from the seats are often shooshed. So not being the primary/secondary photographer and having a silent camera could be very beneficial. The paid shooter isn't the ONLY photographer at these events, one has to think outside their box.

Canon's silent modes vary from DSLR to DSLR, but none are very silent. The 5D4 is softened a bit, and the 7D2 actually might be a bit quieter yet.

mdvaden wrote in post #18714118
The reaction may vary these days due to the reach of internet content. Back then, I think Youtube was absent and ideas, appreciation or disappointments didn't propagate as much or as frequently. Was your post implying that maybe people were more appreciative of whatever was new and approved back then, whereas today they may expect everyting?

Come to think of it, I think more people back then made choices for themselves based on little input (from friends, groups, or perhaps publications that hit the shelves). Today we have access to so much input from everyone...experts, those calling themselves, experts and a plethora of other conversations whether in person or on forums, youtube, etc....I think we are too quick to judge/be disappointed and perhaps expect too much too fast.

Silent shutter is not hype, it's normal part of digital photography.

Can't imagine going back to a noisy shutter.

Added benefit is the lack of moving parts.

Consider the dual card slot debate, electronic shutter is also a backup shutter. I recall a video by photo Rec where he had his mechanical shutter die on travel, but able to switch to electronic and still use the camera.

Love the idea of the electronic shutter, I don't feel the need to limit my shooting and worry about shutter life.

Charlie wrote in post #18714247
Silent shutter is not hype, it's normal part of digital photography.

Can't imagine going back to a noisy shutter.

Added benefit is the lack of moving parts.

Consider the dual card slot debate, electronic shutter is also a backup shutter. I recall a video by photo Rec where he had his mechanical shutter die on travel, but able to switch to electronic and still use the camera.

Love the idea of the electronic shutter, I don't feel the need to limit my shooting and worry about shutter life.

To counter:

1) I have NEVER worried about shutter life or mirror life. Through all the years and tens of thousands of shots, never have I had any issues with that, nor has a vast majority of shooters, including here on POTN. So I think that is the most trivial of reasons to want silent shutter.

2) Not sure how silent shutter is a normal part of photography. There are limited cases where shutter sound is either disallowed or unwanted, but again, a huge segment of the photographic scene doesn't suffer from the clack of a mirror and shutter. You could probably name 10 times where it is really useful, and I could come up with 100 where it doesn't.

It is just a tool, like anything else, and can be useful, but isn't mandatory for a vast majority of time spent behind a camera. I agree it is not hype, but it isn't a critical feature either.

It's the old "I don't use it/need it, so it must be B.S." argument.

Any statement like that just puts the person posting in a their own small little world.
If it was "I have no use for it" fine, but always the assumption that what YOU want is universal.
How silly is that?
eg: Lot's of people don't need/want dual cards, does that make dual cards "b.s." ? No, it makes the feature less important to them.

Of course there are dozens of uses for silent shutters. And that doesn't even take into account when the tool will make it "better" vs. the "make or break" scenarios.

It is a forgone fact that any option on a tool is likely going to be more important to some than it is to you. Sheesh.