EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

I agree its a tool

Its overhyped ..... however some people absolutly have to have it. I know a guy that works on movie sets in Hollywood. Everything is Mic'd and they can PU an Ant farting. So he absolutely has to have silent mode. With my 5D4, I can be at the end of an isle or back rows shooting into a ceremony and you absolutly can not hear the shutter. Impossible. And we have tested. But everyone that has silent shutter on a mirrorless will convince you this is a feature that sets them apart from other. Same for eye focus. Jeeze, what dod we do before eye focus. I dont have any problem hitting a moving target at 1.2 and I dont have eye focus on my bodies.....its a great feature....It would be nice to have..but the world is not going to change if you dont have eye focus on your camera

Photographers will come up will all kinds of BS and propaganda to convince everyone that their gear is the best way to go and If you are not doing what they are doing.....your just not as good or not as professional....Total BS mentality to justify why they went with one brand over the other

I dont ever pay attention to the hype anymore. Cameras are just tools. Nothing more nothing less

Kinda reminds me of those that say high ISO is useless. We have a member here that tried to convince everyone that ISO 400 or less is all that is needed to shoot anything. No matter how we pointed out situations where high ISO is necessary, he would pull up examples (that were terrible) to show how one could shoot the same at lower ISOs. It is a bit ludicrous.

But hey, the EOS-R has silent shutter, so we should be good, yes? There is a Sony checkbox that can be checked.

When i still worked at a fully operational performing arts venue (vs. teaching it in college now) I used to go out in the audience and take photos during dress rehearsals and sometimes performances.

My first body with the "quiet" shutter mode was a HUGE benefit in those situations. "Silent" needless to say will be even better. Quiet is good now, but less critical for our rehearsals, would love silent during a performance with an audience.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18714240
You shooting at little clubs throughout the area isn't the same as US Open shooting, lol. You aren't going to get a shot from a long distance away at a US Open, and if you are in the player's presence, you aren't even to be shooting anything during the entire time the player is addressing the ball through the end of his swing.

You made it clear you can't do it, implied through your statement to others in-general. So we accept your belief you do not have a solution.

My work was not at little clubs, but a couple of the west coast's finest. Maybe lining up with the nickname co-workers gave me "The Master of Invention" ... I know of several solutions to shoot golf tournaments that would be excellent for the smallest or largest of golf tournaments. I did not post to hear about what you or others cannot do in this capacity.

umphotography wrote in post #18714256
I agree its a tool

Its overhyped ..... however some people absolutly have to have it. I know a guy that works on movie sets in Hollywood. Everything is Mic'd and they can PU an Ant farting. So he absolutely has to have silent mode.

Yes, your point earlier was clear. And it seemed fairly clear you were not calling the function (tool) "BS". Evidently a man like you just described, may not have needed the function until somewhat recently? If he can't use a shutter, was his niche non-existent like 20 years ago? Or was he using other gear or methods?

But if the tool exists, somebody can always put it to extra use.

mdvaden wrote in post #18714274
You made it clear you can't do it, implied through your statement to others in-general. So we accept your belief you do not have a solution.

My work was not at little clubs, but a couple of the west coast's finest. Maybe lining up with the nickname co-workers gave me "The Master of Invention" ... I know of several solutions to shoot golf tournaments that would be excellent for the smallest or largest of golf tournaments. I did not post to hear about what you or others cannot do in this capacity.

I post what the rules are and what others have encountered. Again, I stated US Open, not some of the West Coast's "finest", whatever that means. Not in the same league at all, with people or rules. That is like saying you have shot football at some of the west coast's finest universities, vs the superbowl. It is also very cool that you are the MacGuyver of photography.

Shooting long lenses far away to get a shot is something none of us have ever heard of before, such a great technique. I suspect paparazzi, birders and wildlife shooters would love to know about this technique, just imagine how many photographers that were mauled by bears trying to get that "perfect closeup" would have been saved.

He was using other methods: a blimp. Cumbersome device he would gladly dump in favour of silent shutter.

Choderboy wrote in post #18714288
He was using other methods: a blimp. Cumbersome device he would gladly dump in favour of silent shutter.

Close, I decided on a hot air balloon, it was a pain getting the thing off the ground but once up, the marshals couldn't get at me. Until one of the dastardly drives put a whole hole in the bulky balloon, and down I went. Hot air balloons are cheaper than blimps.... much easier on the business side of things.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18714285
I post what the rules are and what others have encountered. Again, I stated US Open, not some of the West Coast's "finest", whatever that means. Not in the same league at all, with people or rules. That is like saying you have shot football at some of the west coast's finest universities, vs the superbowl.

Corrected your quote above as well.

I read what you said. What I'm sharing is that I could shoot any tournament's "critical" points with a DSLR, and if available, mirrorless.

Your last couple replies remind me of a golf pro years ago who complained to tournament "Refs" that we didn't know how to set up a fair pin placement. The Pro's comments were his opinion. And he had no idea we were on the course 3 am in the dark using 6 foot and 8 foot straight edges, back-iighting the entire green to mark where the pin would go. It boils down to he did not have solution, where a solution and success existed. He had a legitimate concern, but he simply was unaware of certain methods. The US Open is almost certain to be using a Stimpmeter too, for measuring the speed of their greens. It's the shared precise standards among golf course at every level that simplifies certain strategies ... strategies that extend beyond just game setup.

The fact that a US Open is top level doesn't change everything about everything. Using course gear for example, the cup depth and placement will be the same as the most basic municipal golf course or other private clubs. All cup-setters have an exact diameter and rim depth. Every course will still be mowing close to 125/1000s of an inch give or take and double mowing greens for tournaments.

So shifting to photography and how a human can move among 18 holes or so during a tournament, the means and etiquette successful for most country clubs, can be 100% successful for any tournament.

In my reply, I don't need to explain why someone else does not have a solution for any golf tournament photography. I simply need to know that it can be done and that I can do it.

So I will wrap this up full circle to the EOS R mirrorless, that it's not essential for a golf tournament at any level. But it could make shooting at a tournament possible for quite a few people who have not figured out a way of doing so with a DSLR. A law or official rule would be the only main obstacle if there were one.

And we all here know that technique, it is nothing new or special. You shoot some distance away with a long lens, or get a perspective somewhere on the course that clears all the people lined up. However you would not be able to be in the vicinity of the player with a camera that makes any noise, or you would be escorted off. With a mirrorless at 20fps standing about 30' feet away, down at ground level, provides a perspective not obtainable by any other method. That is the point I am making. We are both correct, you are correct you could get some shots with distance and focal length techniques, and I am right in saying you are going to get "the" shots being close with a silent camera. It is the latter I opened my reply with regarding the hyped up importance of silent shutter.

So there should be no dispute mirrorless has its places with silent shutter, and affords you the type of shot you are not going to get other ways due to a silent shutter.

umphotography wrote in post #18714256
I agree its a tool

Its overhyped ..... however some people absolutly have to have it.

...

I dont ever pay attention to the hype anymore. Cameras are just tools. Nothing more nothing less

Examples:

- the guy hiding in a closet trying to get pictures of his best friend's girlfriend, definitely need silent shutter
- the PI getting in-the-room shots of a tryst for his paid client
- the person trying to frame a politician in the act of doing something dispicable
- the idiot getting a close up of a sleeping lioness with cubs
- getting shots of a drug deal
- zombie apocalypse shooting of the walking dead for some editorial should the human race survive and rebuild
- getting a picture of your wife getting dressed, that is dangerous, I think I still have a scar from the shoe that was launched into my skull

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18714298
And we all here know that technique, it is nothing new or special. You shoot some distance away with a long lens, or get a perspective somewhere on the course that clears all the people lined up. However you would not be able to be in the vicinity of the player with a camera that makes any noise, or you would be escorted off.

No worries. I know the protocols for tournaments, and when noise is allowed or not allowed. And appropriate distances.

No worries at this end - got all the bases covered. The solutions are known.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18714252
To counter:

1) I have NEVER worried about shutter life or mirror life. Through all the years and tens of thousands of shots, never have I had any issues with that, nor has a vast majority of shooters, including here on POTN. So I think that is the most trivial of reasons to want silent shutter.

2) Not sure how silent shutter is a normal part of photography. There are limited cases where shutter sound is either disallowed or unwanted, but again, a huge segment of the photographic scene doesn't suffer from the clack of a mirror and shutter. You could probably name 10 times where it is really useful, and I could come up with 100 where it doesn't.

It is just a tool, like anything else, and can be useful, but isn't mandatory for a vast majority of time spent behind a camera. I agree it is not hype, but it isn't a critical feature either.

1. The shutter is physical, and while I didn't worry too much about it, it's sort of like worrying about car mileage. I really only care for resale value, but for big long trips often, you kind of do worry. With increasingly fast cameras, like the 1Dx's, you can go through an incredible amount of wear in a short amount of time. With faster cameras, you do care, even if only a little. I'll put 50 K on my shutter this year, and was looking for a third camera, electronic shutter a requirement for me. I've been shooting a lot, so it matters.

2. On the part of it being normal, what I mean is that it becomes a feature like AF. In that way, it's normal. Power door locks and windows are normal for cars, and I wouldn't buy a car without those features, even if it can easily get me to my destination. These functions are not normal for DSLR shooters, but mirrorless are fully aware of it. Like roll-up windows, nobody likes it, but put up with it. Nobody likes shutter sound, but put up with it.

Charlie wrote in post #18714328
1. The shutter is physical, and while I didn't worry too much about it, it's sort of like worrying about car mileage. I really only care for resale value, but for big long trips often, you kind of do worry. With increasingly fast cameras, like the 1Dx's, you can go through an incredible amount of wear in a short amount of time. With faster cameras, you do care, even if only a little. I'll put 50 K on my shutter this year, and was looking for a third camera, electronic shutter a requirement for me. I've been shooting a lot, so it matters.

Your post was reminding me of mileage on other components and where shutter ranks among other buttons, dials and parts. I've only had one camera malfunction, and it was the lens not zooming right on a very old Canon SX10 IS. And it was fallen upon when tripping and landing on a backpack. Otherwise, nothing on my other cameras has failed that I recall. Normally "shutter" comes to mind most often when thinking about wear. But maybe button-less would be good too? I'm curious how the new touch bar on the EOS R compares to buttons for longevity.

umphotography wrote in post #18714256
I agree its a tool

Its overhyped ..... however some people absolutly have to have it. I know a guy that works on movie sets in Hollywood. Everything is Mic'd and they can PU an Ant farting. So he absolutely has to have silent mode. With my 5D4, I can be at the end of an isle or back rows shooting into a ceremony and you absolutly can not hear the shutter. Impossible. And we have tested. But everyone that has silent shutter on a mirrorless will convince you this is a feature that sets them apart from other. Same for eye focus. Jeeze, what dod we do before eye focus. I dont have any problem hitting a moving target at 1.2 and I dont have eye focus on my bodies.....its a great feature....It would be nice to have..but the world is not going to change if you dont have eye focus on your camera

Photographers will come up will all kinds of BS and propaganda to convince everyone that their gear is the best way to go and If you are not doing what they are doing.....your just not as good or not as professional....Total BS mentality to justify why they went with one brand over the other

I dont ever pay attention to the hype anymore. Cameras are just tools. Nothing more nothing less

I can tell you right now, in 5 years time, you will not even consider a camera that does not do Eye focus, and silent shutter.

While you make due without it now, it will be a minimum spec in 5 years time. Possibly IBIS, however people really can make due without with so many stabilized lenses.

Eye focus isn't widely available, so more difficult for Canon users to truly evaluate the significance. Many folks upgraded Sony cameras for this feature alone, outright revolutionary. Many folks just can't recognize how brilliant it is yet.

There are many brilliant features the photo industry has not accepted. Pre buffer that only mirrorless can do.... iPhones can do this now, and it will be normal with mirrorless within 5 years. The tech is brilliant.