EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

Eye AF is great, I put that above silent shutter and IBIS, for sure. Would love to have that with my kids so I could just worry about keeping the kid in the frame and composed well without worrying about an AF point somewhere to put AF on their faces or eyes.

If silent shooting is so normal and expected behavior, why have cameras and phones had the "shutter sound" implemented by default everywhere for nearly 2 decades? I think the sound of a shutter, even with an option to do silent, will still be around for a very long time. The sound of a shutter, whether real or fake, is very useful during many types of shoots. It isn't there just for the photographer, it provides use to those involved in the shoot.

What does eye focus do, when there are many faces with visible eyes in the frame, such as in a soccer match? What if the action is involving a offense player who has his BACK to the lens, and a defender who is a few feet farther away who is attempting (unsuccessfully, due to the actions of the offense player (with his back to the lens) to steal the ball?
How does the photographer tell the camera "Nevermind, I want the other guy (with his back toward me) to be the best in-focus player"?

This is a simple example of when I would NOT want eye focus priority!

mdvaden wrote in post #18714231

Hosted photo: posted by mdvaden in
./showthread.php?p=187​14231&i=i153662229
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Great shoulder turn for an old fella.

Charlie wrote in post #18714333
I can tell you right now, in 5 years time, you will not even consider a camera that does not do Eye focus, and silent shutter.

While you make due without it now, it will be a minimum spec in 5 years time. Possibly IBIS, however people really can make due without with so many stabilized lenses.

Eye focus isn't widely available, so more difficult for Canon users to truly evaluate the significance. Many folks upgraded Sony cameras for this feature alone, outright revolutionary. Many folks just can't recognize how brilliant it is yet.

There are many brilliant features the photo industry has not accepted. Pre buffer that only mirrorless can do.... iPhones can do this now, and it will be normal with mirrorless within 5 years. The tech is brilliant.

Indeed. People don't miss what they don't know/don't have.

Just use a Go Pro, it's pretty silent.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18714302
Examples:

- the guy hiding in a closet trying to get pictures of his best friend's girlfriend, definitely need silent shutter
- the PI getting in-the-room shots of a tryst for his paid client
- the person trying to frame a politician in the act of doing something dispicable
- the idiot getting a close up of a sleeping lioness with cubs
- getting shots of a drug deal
- zombie apocalypse shooting of the walking dead for some editorial should the human race survive and rebuild
- getting a picture of your wife getting dressed, that is dangerous, I think I still have a scar from the shoe that was launched into my skull

Charlie wrote in post #18714333
I can tell you right now, in 5 years time, you will not even consider a camera that does not do Eye focus, and silent shutter.

Some people.

For me, I'm hoping the shutter sound remains as an option. Presently, I coach some subjects / models to use the shutter sound for knowing when a pose can be released or changed. So if both options are salvaged, I'm good with it. I don't mind new option tools if it doesn't raise cost very much, or remove certain features that have some use.

Even 10 years from now, if someone put a 5DS on sale, with 5000 shots, and maybe $300, I'd jump on it and use it in the studio.

Every year that advances, extends how far back people will consider both cameras and lenses. Some photographers who shoot the most recent bodies, use very old lens designs. One guy recently, in the context of an EOS R review video, noted that he shoots almost exclusively with vintage lenses.

mdvaden wrote in post #18714367
Some people.

For me, I'm hoping the shutter sound remains as an option. Presently, I coach some subjects / models to use the shutter sound for knowing when a pose can be released or changed. So if both options are salvaged, I'm good with it. I don't mind new option tools if it doesn't raise cost very much, or remove certain features that have some use.

Even 10 years from now, if someone put a 5DS on sale, with 5000 shots, and maybe $300, I'd jump on it and use it in the studio.

Every year that advances, extends how far back people will consider both cameras and lenses. Some photographers who shoot the most recent bodies, use very old lens designs. One guy recently, in the context of an EOS R review video, noted that he shoots almost exclusively with vintage lenses.

Silent shutter tech won't be perfect by then, so mechanical will still be around, and in those instance where you want sound, simply use the mechanical shutter. Some cameras currently have the fake sound option.

I hope the high ISO is as good on the EOS-R as it is on the 5D4. If it isn't, I worry about the next mirrorless that will be announced. I hope the banding isn't really an issue as discussed by Tony N I believe.

I need to keep ISO performance where it is (which is okay, but I would like more) or better for what I shoot. Yesterday was a 7 hour day and about 16K steps, so good for me, but yet not good for me. My shoulder hurt after carrying the bag around to follow the kids from getting ready to practice to performance and then back to the busses/semis.

Wilt wrote in post #18713786
OK, what are the chances that Canon bothers to list 3rd party (aftermarket) crop lenses?!

None.

But it should also be possible for them to write their own utilities that will enter their lens data into the camera database.

Wilt wrote in post #18714351
What does eye focus do, when there are many faces with visible eyes in the frame, such as in a soccer match? What if the action is involving a offense player who has his BACK to the lens, and a defender who is a few feet farther away who is attempting (unsuccessfully, due to the actions of the offense player (with his back to the lens) to steal the ball?
How does the photographer tell the camera "Nevermind, I want the other guy (with his back toward me) to be the best in-focus player"?

This is a simple example of when I would NOT want eye focus priority!

There are situations where one does not want to use eye-focus. But that doesn't mean the feature isn't useful. What a strange way to think of it. I sometimes need to drive my car in reverse. That doesn't mean the forward gears are useless.

Having used a Sony body for most of 2018 alongside my Canon 5D3, I feel like the Sony features I would miss most from the R:
1) Eye AF. Really awesome for making composition more natural because you don't have to think about where the AF point is, or can be placed.
2) IBIS - Just awesome to have a stabilizer with the many old MF lenses that can be adapted to mirrorless bodies so easily.

I don't really care about dual cards. That just gives me a place to store my second card. I do love silent shutter and sometimes I wish I had one with a super fast read speed like the A9 so I could use it for faster motion. I do worry about the very slow read speed of the R.

I'm watching to see if Canon can release a line of very nice, small primes. They don't have to be fast, but can be. Look at the Sony 24/1.4, 28/2, 50/1.8, 55/1.8, and 85/1.8. I'd love to see a Canon set like that for the R. The massive, tank like 28-70/2 and 50/1.2 are not what I'm looking for in mirrorless.

Charlie wrote in post #18714333
I can tell you right now, in 5 years time, you will not even consider a camera that does not do Eye focus, and silent shutter.

This isn't five years from now, though, so a camera without those features is not crap today for missing them.

RDKirk wrote in post #18714458
This isn't five years from now, though, so a camera without those features is not crap today for missing them.

Charlie

whats wrong with aiming at the face ?? or nose ?? Photographers have been doing this for years with not a lot of problems

The dumb down affect with the cameras results with photographers loosing basic skill sets.....Like how to focus....Kind of a critical skill to have

at least I would think that is important

New photographers dont know how to use ND filters, Dont know how to count stops, dont understand basic flash lighting

So they buy cameras that are full auto, use natural light, put everything in auto modes for pictures and then they go on the teaching circuits as masters of the photography Universe

some basic things like focus and how to track, lighting, are really important too understand

Im pretty Old School. Not sure I would use Eye Focus all that much

JeffreyG wrote in post #18714450
There are situations where one does not want to use eye-focus. But that doesn't mean the feature isn't useful. What a strange way to think of it. I sometimes need to drive my car in reverse. That doesn't mean the forward gears are useless.

Having used a Sony body for most of 2018 alongside my Canon 5D3, I feel like the Sony features I would miss most from the R:
1) Eye AF. Really awesome for making composition more natural because you don't have to think about where the AF point is, or can be placed.
2) IBIS - Just awesome to have a stabilizer with the many old MF lenses that can be adapted to mirrorless bodies so easily.

I don't really care about dual cards. That just gives me a place to store my second card. I do love silent shutter and sometimes I wish I had one with a super fast read speed like the A9 so I could use it for faster motion. I do worry about the very slow read speed of the R.

I'm watching to see if Canon can release a line of very nice, small primes. They don't have to be fast, but can be. Look at the Sony 24/1.4, 28/2, 50/1.8, 55/1.8, and 85/1.8. I'd love to see a Canon set like that for the R. The massive, tank like 28-70/2 and 50/1.2 are not what I'm looking for in mirrorless.

Hey, you need not defend the feature, I am legitimately trying to LEARN how an eye-focus camera handles that situation for one shot, when the next shot might well benefit from the presence of that feature!

Some responses have been 'use face focus', which is a perfectly good thing to do. But how does one disable eye focus quickly for one shot, so they can rely upon face focus for the second shot one second later, or even shift AF points for the third shot, one additional second later?

umphotography wrote in post #18714486
Charlie

whats wrong with aiming at the face ?? or nose ?? Photographers have been doing this for years with not a lot of problems

The dumb down affect with the cameras results with photographers loosing basic skill sets.....Like how to focus....Kind of a critical skill to have

at least I would think that is important

New photographers dont know how to use ND filters, Dont know how to count stops, dont understand basic flash lighting

So they buy cameras that are full auto, use natural light, put everything in auto modes for pictures and then they go on the teaching circuits as masters of the photography Universe

some basic things like focus and how to track, lighting, are really important too understand

Im pretty Old School. Not sure I would use Eye Focus all that much

You can be a skilled driver, but who wants to drive stick shift in morning traffic? Eye AF is simplifying, just an advance version of face detect that aims at the eyes rather than the nose.

Focus should not be a critical skill. I have no issues with eye focus or focus using the eyes, as long as it works well is all that matters.

In the end, we simply want the quickest, most precise AF. Whatever gets us there most efficiently should be used.