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Thread started 07 Sep 2018 (Friday) 17:15
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I have to admit it: I need help with Color

 
ksbal
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Sep 08, 2018 08:00 |  #31

Yes, I think we need to step back and talk about white balance, exposure and color casts.

I have a photovision target card, but anything with a white/black/middle grey that is designed for this will help a ton.

I set the white balance in camera, or use the image with the eyedropper after in lightroom to get to where the white balance should be.

Do you have the camera set to auto white balance or a static one like daylight or cloudy?

White balance only works well when you 1. set the exposure correctly first, and then 2. use the target card (or your method of choice) to set the custom white balance.

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Godox/Flashpoint r2 system, plus some canon stuff.

  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Sep 08, 2018 08:09 |  #32

I love my color checker passport, but you're simply not going to have the opportunity to use it with every photo. Especially ones that are already taken. :D

In mixed lighting it might give you an average WB but with 3D forms, casts on one side vs the the other might not be accounted for.


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Sep 08, 2018 11:34 as a reply to  @ post 18703258 |  #33

yes, of course! Go for it!


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Post edited over 5 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Sep 08, 2018 12:57 |  #34

since you are concerned about consistency from image to image, and are feeling that these two images seem so different, lets start with an area that should be close color.

I put the eyedropper sample spots out there just to mark areas so I can hit the same spot time after time. I have the eye dropper sample set on 11x11 pixels.

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Here is the hue and saturation for each of the spots.

1=25/24
2=26/20

3=22/29
4=29/22

for this kind of work, the first two are essentially exact matches, IMO
the second two do show what seems to be a pretty big shift but in the grand scheme is really not that much. If you watch the arrow circled in red you can see that between 1 and 2 it doesn't move at all, and between 3 and 4 it barely moves.

Here is#3 on top and #4 on bottom but darkened with the same hue/sat values. To me, that's close enough to be considered the same color for this kind of work, if just barely.

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IMO this shows that your processing IS actually the same, and that the difference you see is with the individual's complexion. There is also the potential of the guy's face being lit away from the window with a different temperature light, but I would guess that is minimal. If you have an area like this in your photos you can compare the numbers to achieve consistent results ... just as you would do with a color checker ... for instance if you went back to this spot later in the day, or if the exposure changed due to clouds rolling in or out.

So glad football is back, and that I moved my workstation to the living room. :D
OU is crushing UCLA early. I'm going to get a beer and grab that other image to compare it to these.

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Post edited over 5 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Sep 08, 2018 13:54 |  #35

compared to the above numbers, these (from the third pic you posted) represent a big color shift and will definitely put you into the "these don't look the same" category

1 = 41/73
2 = 53/47

the image is too yellow, not enough red/magenta

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the next screen grab is how to take the "numbers" from the background of one pic and move them to another pic.

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the green circle foreground color is sampled from the color sample in the woman's pic in post 34 ... i think it was from #3

red circle is the shadow target color eyedropper. I double clicked it to get the color picker open at the top of the image. That window, Select target shadow color:, shows the #2 color from the image we are working on in this post as the "current" color sample. The "new" color sample has been picked from the foreground color (green circle). This plainly shows the difference in colors between the two images. It may be hard to see the yellow from the #2 sample of this image, but the red values of the slightly lighter #3 sample from the above is clear.

so after picking the #3 sample as the new shadow value, we click ok in the Select target shadow color: box and return to the Curves dialog. With the shadow eyedropper tool selected, click over the #2 color sample. The result is shown in the next post with the movement of the RGB curves in the shadows.

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Sep 08, 2018 14:07 as a reply to  @ post 18703112 |  #36

what I consider to be more important is the fact that 100 mm focal length permits a shooting distance which gives a more natural perspective to the face


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Post edited over 5 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
     
Sep 08, 2018 14:17 |  #37

top is result of setting new shadow values above.

below the green line on the right I have manually bumped the RGB values in the mid tones in the same way they were bumped with the automatic process. The reason for this adjustment is because the values we are concerned with in the subject are closer to the mid tones and quarter tones than the shadows. I also brought down the highlights in the overall RGB channel because I felt they were too hot. On the left is the original.

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all this is based on the background being a little warm, but I'd bet that is correct.

the lack of red/magenta in the original image makes the subject a little green, and leaves the yellow a bit to high. Actually, I probably should have taken a little yellow out in the highlights. Now we have three photos that are pretty close. Some more digging, by someone not distracted by football, could bring them even closer.

If you are looking for more consistency having a target like a color checker is worth 20x it's weight in gold. But if you know how to push color around you can match similar settings across time spans and even different days. Consider shooting an event where the host or groom is wearing a greyish jacket but every corner of the room has different lighting and the event is held for 4 hours from day until dusk. You're going to want that jacket to be close to the same color at least for the "money shots" ... hauling a color checker around is out of the question IMO.

Touchdown OU, boomer sooner!

cheers!

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Sep 08, 2018 14:41 |  #38

bonus content, hope you don't mind me appropriating your image, ksbal. :D

another great reason why having a grey card is no substitute for knowing how to push the numbers around ... cool, neutral, warm

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I have to admit it: I need help with Color
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