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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 10 Oct 2018 (Wednesday) 10:05
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-= Canon EOS R owners unite! Post photos and discuss.

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Jan 03, 2019 11:48 |  #1966

randy98mtu wrote in post #18783611 (external link)
A lot of strange hate and criticism towards Canon and their product design decisions. I think this lens looks like an amazing single lens solution for people like me tired of carrying and swapping a bunch of fast lenses. I think the price is the biggest deterrent right now. If this guy was in the 2200-2500 range it would come across much better I think. I for one would love to own it, but not at that price. If I could get it for $2000 I might consider it


No hate from me, I love innovation! (or even following SIGMA's innovation) I just didn't see anyone asking for this, and thus far haven't seen anyone shooting it.


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randy98mtu
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Jan 03, 2019 12:01 |  #1967

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18783613 (external link)
Canon is about to get a lesson in something in America that's called, "Now we're gonna find out how badly they really want to sell it and how big that margin really is/was."

I thought it was just called supply and demand...


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kmilo
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Jan 03, 2019 12:02 |  #1968

seems like the perfect wedding photographer lens, no?

no hate from me either, we all win the "let's make our brand the best" war

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18783617 (external link)
No hate from me, I love innovation! (or even following SIGMA's innovation) I just didn't see anyone asking for this, and thus far haven't seen anyone shooting it.


Kris
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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 03, 2019 12:59 |  #1969

kmilo wrote in post #18783632 (external link)
seems like the perfect wedding photographer lens, no?

no hate from me either, we all win the "let's make our brand the best" war

Just because Lamborghini built the world's best sports car, doesn't mean I can afford one. In that case, what good is it to me?




  
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randy98mtu
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Jan 03, 2019 13:06 |  #1970

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18783612 (external link)
B.I.N.G.O. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner, ladies and gentlemen!

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18783662 (external link)
Just because Lamborghini built the world's best sports car, doesn't mean I can afford one. In that case, what good is it to me?

So Lamborghini shouldn't make cars because you can't afford one? Did Lamborghini answer a question nobody had? I can't afford a Canon 600 f/4 IS, but that doesn't make it any less awesome. The 28-70 is a niche product probably, but we have a lot of GAS crazy people around here, so I would think we will see a few. There is a 600 f/4 thread, after all.


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Trvlr323
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Jan 03, 2019 13:07 |  #1971

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18783662 (external link)
Just because Lamborghini built the world's best sports car, doesn't mean I can afford one. In that case, what good is it to me?

Doesn't have to be any good to you to have a justified existence. You're obviously not in Lamborghini's target demographic but that doesn't render their products worthless.


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i-G12
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Jan 03, 2019 13:10 |  #1972

Canon going the Apple route...gonna find out where the price breaking point is. They may be very very close. ;)




  
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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 03, 2019 13:16 |  #1973

i-G12 wrote in post #18783675 (external link)
Canon going the Apple route...gonna find out where the price breaking point is. They may be very very close. ;)

EXACTLY.




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Post edited over 2 years ago by CyberDyneSystems. (6 edits in all)
     
Jan 03, 2019 13:17 |  #1974

kmilo wrote in post #18783632 (external link)
seems like the perfect wedding photographer lens, no?

...

You could very well be correct.

What I am seeing, the trend, as things continue to evolve, is that digital sensors keep improving (MUCH faster than glass) with low light ability so much better every few years, that advances that get us a stop of light appear to be less important (relatively) than they were a decade ago.

EG; In the era of the 100-400 version 1 "trombone" it was without question the most widely used zoom lens on the forum for wildlife use. That said, very few used it for sports, which often needed faster f/2.8 (or faster) aperture, and the vast majority of the 100-400mm wildlife users either had, or more so, wanted a faster long prime.

These days f/5.6 @ 400mm is no longer a hindrance for either sports of wildlife.

In fact I am happy to shoot a SIGMA 100-400mm @ f/6.3 instead. (I would have laughed at SIGMA if they had tried to market that lower speed lens 10 years ago! No 10 years ago SIGMA was focusing on faster lenses, like 120-300mm f/2.8)

Couple the advances in sensors and noise and insanely high ISO settings that no one would have dreamed possible a short while ago, with the fact that the hardware is also allowing us auto focus at much smaller apertures, natively or with teleconverters, and a lot of the speed advantages of fast glass are in fact less important now.

Anyway, clearly there are and always will be applications where faster apertures are desired/needed. My point of view however is that the need is getting less, not more. That is the trend.


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WilsonFlyer
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Jan 03, 2019 13:21 |  #1975

nqjudo wrote in post #18783671 (external link)
Doesn't have to be any good to you to have a justified existence. You're obviously not in Lamborghini's target demographic but that doesn't render their products worthless.


Let me draw you a graph.

Here's you---------------> Here's getting what I meant

BTW, I can afford the Lamborghini. It's called an ANALOGY.




  
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kmilo
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Jan 03, 2019 13:24 |  #1976

Because of lamborghini's innovation, all car lovers win ... not just those that can afford one. Taken from Lamborghini's website:

"For over thirty years, Lamborghini has been developing carbon fiber technology and applying it to the automotive field, through an international research effort that also includes the Advanced Composite Structures Laboratory (ACSL) in Seattle.
Thanks to a partnership with Boeing, Lamborghini has opened up new vistas for composite materials, thus reaffirming its position as the leading car maker in carbon fiber research."

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18783662 (external link)
Just because Lamborghini built the world's best sports car, doesn't mean I can afford one. In that case, what good is it to me?


Kris
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Trvlr323
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Jan 03, 2019 13:26 |  #1977

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #18783681 (external link)
Let me draw you a graph.

Here's you---------------> Here's getting what I meant


Let me draw you a graph.

Here's you---------------> Here's someone with the ability to communicate properly.


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randy98mtu
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Jan 03, 2019 13:28 |  #1978

So as usual, a simple, innocent question turns things on their head.

I agree Jake that sensors are getting better and better. I shoot my EOS R in ISO auto and let it go up to 12800 and I am very happy with what I get. When I shot my 40D, I was afraid to go over 800. But ISO won't get you subject separation like aperture will.


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Jan 03, 2019 13:39 |  #1979

OK, we have the ludicrous RF 28-70mm f/2L, the mildly insane RF 50mm f/1.2L, the awesome 24-105mm f/4L, and the affordable and spectacular RF 35mm f/1.8 macro.


What other lenses do you want in the RF mount, at what build level, and at what price point? My understanding is Canon is putting EF/EF-S lenses on the back burner to focus on RF mount lenses. If you were in charge, what would you pursue?

I really don’t see myself selling my 70-200mm 2.8 IS II, 100-400mm II or 1-24mm f/4L for RF replacements should they appear. Even if the R Mark II is a 50MP beast with 10fps AF/tracking that made me jettison my EF mount bodies, I think it would cost too much to upgrade vs just using the ones I have with an adapter.

For me, I would like to see the next lenses be a “consumer+” build combo with a 18-55mm f/3.5-4.5 and 55-250mm f/4-5.6 pair in the $400-$600 range or sub $1000 combined. Build and optically a step up from the 18-55mm kit lenses and the EF-S 55-250mm one, but keeping them affordable for the masses. Put the money in the optics, go with polycarbonate bodies for weight and cost savings. Perfect two-lens solution for travel and all-around GP photography.

Thoughts?


Wayne...
~I don't suffer from gear ADD, I embrace and enjoy it...~
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Trvlr323
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Jan 03, 2019 13:40 |  #1980

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18783677 (external link)
You could very well be correct.

What I am seeing, the trend, as things continue to evolve, is that digital sensors keep improving (MUCH faster than glass) with low light ability so much better every few years, that advances that get us a stop of light appear to be less important (relatively) than they were a decade ago.

EG; In the era of the 100-400 version 1 "trombone" it was without question the most widely used zoom lens on the forum for wildlife use. That said, very few used it for sports, which often needed faster f/2.8 (or faster) aperture, and the vast majority of the 100-400mm wildlife users either had, or more so, wanted a faster long prime.

These days f/5.6 @ 400mm is no longer a hindrance for either sports of wildlife.

In fact I am happy to shoot a SIGMA 100-400mm @ f/6.3 instead. (I would have laughed at SIGMA if they had tried to market that lower speed lens 10 years ago!)

Couple the advances in sensors and noise and insanely high ISO settings that no one would have dreamed possible a short while ago, with the fact that the hardware is also allowing us auto focus at much smaller apertures, natively or with teleconverters, and a lot of the speed advantages of fast glass are less important.

Anyway, clearly there are and always will be applications where faster apertures are desired/needed. My point of view however is that the need is getting less, not more.

I see your point, Jake but on the other hand if we know anything about Canon it is that they are a very cautious company and they have much smarter guys at the helm than the bunch of us speculating behind keyboards. For them to introduce this lens with a new mount instead of a more typical offering so early in is pretty interesting. I'm sure that this was very calculated and they did it because the research pointed them in that direction. I think is too early to say either way. I think it's all good anyway. Can't wait see some big whites in RF.


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