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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 12 Nov 2018 (Monday) 15:54
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On1 Photo RAW 2019 release

 
MCAsan
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Nov 12, 2018 15:54 |  #1

The release is now available to those that preordered the software. I would imagine it will available for purchase to the general public within the next few days.




  
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RMyers
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Nov 12, 2018 20:47 |  #2

Thanks, I downloaded my pre-order. I'll do a LR migration over the weekend. I need to do some disk cleanup first and make sure all my backups are done. Shouldn't need to, but better safe than sorry.


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MCAsan
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Nov 12, 2018 22:16 |  #3

I had already moved off Lr and cancelled my CC plan. But the wife is still on CC and so I will have to migrate her to PR next week.




  
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kirkt
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Post edited 8 months ago by kirkt. (3 edits in all)
     
Nov 13, 2018 14:23 |  #4

I downloaded the trial, like I always do, to see if anything has changed. One thing that you should confirm for yourself is that On1 raw conversion applies a LOT of processing to your file without your control. If I process my Fujifilm X-H1 file in dcraw (X-Trans 3 pass demosaicing) or RPP (VNG demosaicing) or similar straight raw converter, I can get a nicely demosaiced file with predictable, nice grain in both the luma and chroma noise channels. On1 on the other hand, removes all chroma noise, even if the NR settings are all zero'ed, and adds sharpening even if all of the sharpening settings are zero'ed. Additionally, the demosaicing leaves a maze-like, almost cross-hatch like appearance instead of nice, uniform and pleasing grain that I can selectively treat if necessary or desired. WTF?

Bizarre, but no different than the previous versions - their raw conversion for Canon CR2s also looks like it has had heavy NR and a median filter applied to it before the user actually touches any settings to make adjustments. Not cool at all.

It is probably a fairly adequate JPEG editor, I suppose, and comparable to the "filter" stack approach of Topaz Studio or Luminar, etc.

Yikes.

Kirk

In the attached image, all NR and sharpening (and lens correction where controlled by the user), for applications that have those features offered the user for their control, were zero'ed or disabled. The crops are 200% zoom screenshots. The original raw file (RAF) is available here:

https://www.dropbox.co​m …goj9kcd/DSCF009​6.RAF?dl=0 (external link)

knock yourself out testing this file in the new On1 if you want. Before you roll your eyes about pixel peeping at 200%, you will find that the On1 file looks odd at lower magnification, but until you zoom in, you won't be able to tell exactly why - also, remember that this is the base raw conversion - once you start adding edits to it, the demosaic artifacts will potentially become even worse. Because they are not "noise" they need to have a lot of blurring or smearing applied to them to get rid of them, causing detail loss in otherwise fine parts of the image.


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kirkt
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Post edited 8 months ago by kirkt.
     
Nov 13, 2018 14:50 |  #5

Capture One for comparison, again with all NR, sharpening and lens corrections disabled. It also appears as if On1 is doing CA corrections without the lens correction enabled. Again, not cool.

kirk


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MCAsan
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Nov 13, 2018 22:59 |  #6

Glad I don't shoot Canon or Fujifilm.




  
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kirkt
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Post edited 8 months ago by kirkt.
     
Nov 14, 2018 06:16 |  #7

I’m glad I have choices!

Kirk


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agedbriar
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Nov 14, 2018 09:40 |  #8

On 1 reminds me of old RawShooter.

It was praised for its "sharpest conversion", but appeared to often render muddy skin tones. It was only after I switched to Bibble and saw what my skin tones were actually looking like that I investigated RawShooter conversions at 500%. Turned out that there was some default sharpening with hard to spot thin black halos applied. It could be turned off, but that setting was well-hidden.




  
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jrscls
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Post edited 8 months ago by jrscls. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 15, 2018 05:15 |  #9

I downloaded On1 PR 2019 and tried it with my Fuji RAF files, and as described above there appeared to be some heavy handed sharpening even when set to zero along with some strange artifacts that I don't see in Capture One. I was also surprised how poorly the Portrait retouching module was in On1 since you still need to mask out the eyebrows, eyes, etc. or they will be blurred along with the skin.

I like the idea of the built LR migration, but if the primary raw editor doesn't work well, then I'm not going to migrate my catalog. For now, I keep LR on my machine to access legacy files and work with sessions in Capture One from this point forward. I'm also learning Affinity to use as a PS replacement. Hopefully, On1 will improve and address some of these issues rather than focusing on the number of features they have for marketing purposes.


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MCAsan
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Nov 15, 2018 08:04 as a reply to  @ jrscls's post |  #10

Please file a trouble ticket with the On1 support group about the problems with processing of your RAF files.




  
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kirkt
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Post edited 8 months ago by kirkt.
     
Nov 15, 2018 08:31 as a reply to  @ MCAsan's post |  #11

I don’t think these are bugs. I think On1’s approach is to cook your raw files during conversion so they look pretty, instead of providing a good neutral starting point.

“It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!”

I guess they have decided that their target market focuses on abolishing chroma noise and having their images appear super sharp right “out of the box.” That way, you can adjust the tone and WB and then get to the “creative” part of stacking the effect filters, instead of spending time getting the best raw conversion to start with. What their target user gains is a pretty image, what they lose is control over their raw data.

If it has not changed in this fourth iteration of their application, it probably is meant to be this way.

Also, the HDR module leaves a lot to be desired, if you actually feed it a true HDR scene. Again, I think it is meant for a crowd that takes landscape images that maybe need two exposures to capture the scene, not true high dynamic range scenes.


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Nov 15, 2018 12:59 |  #12

Sad to hear the same ‘choices’ in On1 are still there and as Capture One have a very functional free version of their app for Fuji files (& Sony) I’m not going to bother with the trial of On1. Like others here I prefer to keep more control of the development of my raw files.


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Nov 28, 2018 15:09 |  #13

I was tempted for this because of the photo stacking and luminosity masks among the features. However if it comes off heavy handed for the raw conversions, that's not a good option. Just DL'd the trial and was reading user comments...has me thinking otherwise now.




  
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kirkt
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Nov 28, 2018 15:22 |  #14

ra40 wrote in post #18760449 (external link)
I was tempted for this because of the photo stacking and luminosity masks among the features. However if it comes off heavy handed for the raw conversions, that's not a good option. Just DL'd the trial and was reading user comments...has me thinking otherwise now.

You should try it for yourself - do not listen to my nonsense!

kirk


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ra40
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Post edited 7 months ago by ra40.
     
Nov 29, 2018 11:36 |  #15

kirkt wrote in post #18760460 (external link)
You should try it for yourself - do not listen to my nonsense!

kirk

DL'ing now, will give it a run and see.

Hour later update: I like so far. Getting accustomed to the interface and control layouts. Initial import the files look a bit soft. Not to difficult to dial them in how I'd do in LR.

The first photo stack was so-so on their default settings. Halo artifacts between the different frames and it blended sharp sections into the softer areas which looks a bit odd.

Will have to play around. Will take some time to acclimate and be comfortable.




  
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On1 Photo RAW 2019 release
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
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