Conundrum: EOS R v EOS 5D mk IV v EOS R mkii?

I'm waiting to see what is possibly in the up and coming pipeline as I cannot decide for the life of me whether to bite the bullet and go for the EOS R now or wait for the inevitable EOS R mk 2 with, hopefully, IBIS - which for me is important - and possibly other advantages. I don't currently have a huge arsenal of Canon EF lenses, L or otherwise, so I don't need to really get too concerned with respect to replacing them with current or upcoming R lenses. Using the EOS R lens adaptor does not fill me with excitement - it's yet another bit of kit to have to keep with me but I can see the advantages for those who have already invested heavily in the top end Canon EF lenses. My current body is the 1DX which is starting to look a little lacking overall and is big/heavy to boot however the AF and FPS suit me well and I've managed to get some images that a lesser body might have missed. The 1DX mk II does little to excite me at the current price but the EOS R is tempting but not yet totally convincing.
If I do 'upgrade' I'm inclined to keep my 1DX as resale value isn't great but is the EOS 5d mkiv a better option than the current EOS R as an additional body?
I'm not a professional photographer; interests are generally landscape, birds, flora and fauna.
Input/thoughts would be appreciated.

There is talk of different lines of R cameras, but a direct successor to the current R model would be several years down the road. It's complete guesswork to expect at what point IBIS will be in a Canon R body (for now, Canon has stated that in lens stabilization is best and why they didn't include it with R). You mention size being important. The R is slightly smaller then the 5D4 (ungripped), but when you add new R lenses, the system is pretty much as bulky as a FF DSLR. Canon hasn't advertized the R as a successor to the 5D4, they've been advertising it as a companion (for getting into the improved optics of R glass and using some of the benefits of a mirrorless system). The advantage of the 5D4 is faster AF with faster continuous shooting, as well as just slightly better sensor performance.

first off I don't buy cameras that don't exist or ones that I think canon should/will make. i'll bet you could get a new 6d2 for 1000 or less before xmas. or 2000 for EOS R, which for my uses is only slightly less capable than 5d4.

The rumor is that the next EOS R model to be announced will have IBIS, but is currently a CR2 level rumor. Wouldn't be surprised at all, nor am I surprised to hear about > 75Mpx version of a mirrorless too.

All of these things would sell, and even those that jumped onto the EOS R early bandwagon will likely sell and buy into the new offerings in 2019.

Better for me, I will take a huge discount on the EOS R personally, but will likely just wait for the pro version and spend money just once.

ed rader wrote in post #18767666
first off I don't buy cameras that don't exist or ones that I think canon should/will make. i'll bet you could get a new 6d2 for 1000 or less before xmas. or 2000 for EOS R, which for my uses is only slightly less capable than 5d4.

(Emphasis added.)

OMG, I love this!

oingyboingybob wrote in post #18767428
I'm waiting to see what is possibly in the up and coming pipeline as I cannot decide for the life of me whether to bite the bullet and go for the EOS R now or wait for the inevitable EOS R mk 2 with, hopefully, IBIS - which for me is important - and possibly other advantages. I don't currently have a huge arsenal of Canon EF lenses, L or otherwise, so I don't need to really get too concerned with respect to replacing them with current or upcoming R lenses. Using the EOS R lens adaptor does not fill me with excitement - it's yet another bit of kit to have to keep with me but I can see the advantages for those who have already invested heavily in the top end Canon EF lenses. My current body is the 1DX which is starting to look a little lacking overall and is big/heavy to boot however the AF and FPS suit me well and I've managed to get some images that a lesser body might have missed. The 1DX mk II does little to excite me at the current price but the EOS R is tempting but not yet totally convincing.
If I do 'upgrade' I'm inclined to keep my 1DX as resale value isn't great but is the EOS 5d mkiv a better option than the current EOS R as an additional body?
I'm not a professional photographer; interests are generally landscape, birds, flora and fauna.
Input/thoughts would be appreciated.

What do you need now? What do you want now? If you were to go mirrorless, what would it get you that you want that you don't have now?

Canon and Nikon have made big gambles on their latest mirrorless lines. They both had mirrorless previously. Canon still has the M. Rah. As with you Bob, I'm not a professional, but I do have money invested in camera gear. Going mirrorless makes no sense for me at this time or probably in the next five years. I purchased my 5DMkIV this last spring and wasn't the least upset when Canon came out with the R.

If mirrorless makes sense for you, decide what you're willing to do. That means the current R body with its current capabilities, a limited set of RF lenses, and a mount adapter for your EF compatible lenses. Does that suit your needs? Are you willing to spend the money for that? Are you willing to take the risk that the EOS R is really "The Next Big Thing™"?

In the end, these are tools, nothing more, nothing less. Electronic and optical machines. I believe there's a thread on the EOS R that runs hundreds of pages. Everyone has an opinion. In this case however, the only opinion that counts is yours, as it's your money and your tools for the photos you want to make.

looking at your gear list the last thing i'd guess was holding you back is the 1dX....what's it not doing that you think you can get with a new camera?

It sounds like you need to spend some time with the physical cameras (as opposed to just studying the specs) in order to see whether one of the current models just “feels right” & has additional capabilities that your current setup is lacking.
I was very interested in the R, and still am, but when I interacted with it in a store I realized that it was not my first choice. However, it took some time with a very knowledgeable person in the store to figure that out.
What do you need that you don’t have? And is that available in a model available today? And does that model feel like the right tool for you and what you typically shoot? If so, bite the bullet and go ahead & get it. JMHO.

I had a similar question for a camera store employee who is much more knowledgeable than I am about mirrorless. She said, "You'll never get the same quality of pictures from a mirrorless camera that you get from your 1DX." That was only her opinion of course, but she has used both.

James P wrote in post #18768660
I had a similar question for a camera store employee who is much more knowledgeable than I am about mirrorless. She said, "You'll never get the same quality of pictures from a mirrorless camera that you get from your 1DX." That was only her opinion of course, but she has used both.

Seems like an ignorant statement on her part, where exactly did she find the EOS R lacking when compared to the 1DX? High ISO perhaps, but I see no other place where that might happen. With the resolution difference alone, they are going to be virtually indistinguishable and also with no need for AFMA, focus discrepancies should be virtually gone.

Also, manual focus lenses will be MUCH better on the EOS R, the fact you can use EFS lenses on the EOS R is nice, and the fact that you can use adapters to use glass you cannot on the 1DX is a desirable thing for many.

That being said, the EOS R isn't a replacement for the 1DX. The EOS R isn't a replacement for the 5D4 either, unless you just shoot landscapes and studio portraits (or similar controlled scenes). Not really from an IQ standpoint, but from a action-oriented AF solution.

However given this is what is being shot, the EOS R is indeed a consideration and would rival the 1DX in some aspects. Probably not so much in DR if you pull up shadows in landscapes or shoot birds in flight, but from a general sense, it is indeed something worthy of consideration. The 5D4 and 1DX are much more closely aligned in function and result, I feel. The EOS R seems to be more of a 6D2 with a 30Mpx sensor.

mathogre wrote in post #18768193
(Emphasis added.)

OMG, I love this!

What do you need now? What do you want now? If you were to go mirrorless, what would it get you that you want that you don't have now?

Canon and Nikon have made big gambles on their latest mirrorless lines. They both had mirrorless previously. Canon still has the M. Rah. As with you Bob, I'm not a professional, but I do have money invested in camera gear. Going mirrorless makes no sense for me at this time or probably in the next five years. I purchased my 5DMkIV this last spring and wasn't the least upset when Canon came out with the R.

If mirrorless makes sense for you, decide what you're willing to do. That means the current R body with its current capabilities, a limited set of RF lenses, and a mount adapter for your EF compatible lenses. Does that suit your needs? Are you willing to spend the money for that? Are you willing to take the risk that the EOS R is really "The Next Big Thing™"?

In the end, these are tools, nothing more, nothing less. Electronic and optical machines. I believe there's a thread on the EOS R that runs hundreds of pages. Everyone has an opinion. In this case however, the only opinion that counts is yours, as it's your money and your tools for the photos you want to make.

Thank you for your response - no sarcasm, no silly statements designed to promote an ego or exaggeration. Your 5 paragraphs have made me stop and think a bit more so many thanks for that. First thought to what I may require is more megapixels as 18 with my 1DX is looking a little sad now although I do enjoy the lack of noise but I do not enjoy the wrist-ache from hefting the beast around.

I shall respond later and in detail after more thought and absorbing the replies that have subsequently followed yours.

Since the camera store employee has used both and works in the business every day, I hardly think her opinion is "ignorant." I'm sure she was talking about focusing and tracking ability. As for image quality, I can't tell the difference between photos taken with my 5DIII or the 1Dx either.

Focusing is actually better on the EOS R from most accounts thus far even from those with the 1D series. There are no phase detect to image capture errors like there is on the DSLR front. One of the largest advantages of mirrorless, in fact. For what the OP stated the need is, the EOS R should be very adequate.

Also, just because somebody uses something, it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about, that is true in any segment in the industry. There has to be more basis than just "they own it, therefore they know what they are talking about". Now if you have seen her work, and it is quite good, or she is published or her results have been published in some way or another, then that adds credence to her assessment. I don't know her, but I do know what MANY have stated as their own experiences across the forums and video reviews from known individuals, and her account is contradictory to others.

As soon as you've tested both systems and write a comprehensive, side-by-side comparison, complete with photos, be sure to let us know. In the meantime, just because you have an opinion based on what you've read, that doesn't make it a fact.

James P wrote in post #18768660
I had a similar question for a camera store employee who is much more knowledgeable than I am about mirrorless. She said, "You'll never get the same quality of pictures from a mirrorless camera that you get from your 1DX." That was only her opinion of course, but she has used both.

James P wrote in post #18771204
As soon as you've tested both systems and write a comprehensive, side-by-side comparison, complete with photos, be sure to let us know. In the meantime, just because you have an opinion based on what you've read, that doesn't make it a fact.

I don't know about you, but that "advice" seems a bit hypocritical? I just don't trust the advice from a camera salesperson.

----

Here are some considerations from those that make their living taking pictures, or actual facts about the camera.

1) Steve Huff - Photographer
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=wpBIsxqaf3U

2) Accounts by other photographers here on POTN and on the internet, also Canon calims the EOS R to have the fastest AF speed of any FF at .05s, so perhaps they are lying or exaggerating, but others seem to think the AF is blazing fast. Tracking capability is different than AF, and perhaps that is where the 1DX will do better with better predictive analysis and tracking capabilities.

3) The EOS R can AF lenses with 2x TC, even if at f11. Heck, even my M50 is better than the 1DX in this consideration of AF capabilities.

4) The EOS R, with the appropriate lenses, can AF in lower light than the 1DX
https://www.canon.se …ories/eos-r-daniel-etter/

5) The EOS R doesn't require AFMA to get critical focus

Since sports isn't really a concern here, but other items mentioned in the OP could benefit from these things. If one was shooting alot of action, then the 1DX of course, or 5D4, but if doing family, landscape, or other things that are bit more laid back, the EOS R and adapter with EF lenses or native RF lenses should be as good, sometimes better than the Canon DSLRs. This isn't my opinion but words from others that have used it.

There is quite a bit of info on the internet at this point to show this to be the case. Sounds like your salesperson friend might be shooting sports or action, and in that case, sure, her findings are certainly expected. I shoot sports with the 5D4 and know the EOS R won't be able to afford me the same results I get now due to AF, that will be the "pro" version of the R once it is announced.

However that material matters little here in this thread. If your salesperson is such a great source of info, definitely ask her to join POTN and post her experiences and her work here to help others make great decisions in their purchases.

which post are you actually replying to?