her first, my second

saw this girl at a local hockey game with some crazy wild eye makeup. she was with a friend's daughter so i networked to get in touch for some shooting.

ive got a rudimentary + grasp on lighting (not that it always works the way i want it to!) but posing/directing a model is something ive got ZERO experience and marginally more than zero confidence in doing.

i shoot with Canon 600ex-rt in shoot through and reflector umbrellas.

we set up a date and she shows up. no flaking here! unfortunately her makeup wasnt as edgy as it was (or seemed) from the week prior. i did ask her to bring an off the shoulder top so i could get a head shot, bare shoulder and white background (posted in Headshots, and in another thread of mine re: elastic/strap marks on skin, in Glamour Talk)

some of the shots look better in black and white but (again as i mentioned) i think i need some MFA because the eyes are JUST MISSING on super sharp focus.

here are some more from the shoot...

https://www.dropbox.co​m …4KobyjYM2vtflnR​R-XAa?dl=0

i actually shot these in the lobby of the local municipal theater. brick walls, large seamless dark paneling, HIGH ceiling for getting lights up high...

the black drop shots i had a 40" shoot through above and on center at 1/8 power, a 32" silver camera left, in line with Lily at eye level set to about 1/32 for some fill (ive got a reflector but need more time with it, or an assistant) and another 600 camera right behind her, above with a snoot for a hairlight, that looks like could have used a little bit of adjustment upward.

DISCLAIMER:

i dont claim to know what im doing, at least not confidently yet, but maybe some comments will be a good guideline for others in the same boat i am and they can take something good away from this!

thanks so much for letting me share!

You might want to look into some lighting techniques that are designed for beauty lighting. Clamshell would be good. The crosslighting you are doing is a bit dramaticfor the subjects pose and outfit. The dark shadows just don't work here. Do a YouTube search for Joel grimes to see how you can improve the softness of your light to fit the subject.

gonzogolf wrote in post #18789009
The crosslighting you are doing is a bit dramaticfor the subjects pose and outfit. The dark shadows just don't work here.

I agree. You're getting too much chiaroscuro, with sharp transitions. In Shot #1, her hair shades part of the eye area that would be good to feature.

Shot #2, camera was too low for a flattering angle.

I'm a lousy photographer but I paint a lot of photo-realistic paintings and lighting is something that I understand very well without knowing how yo apply it to photography, so take my feedback with a grain of salt, please.
In the first image her left arm (right in photo) looks almost detached from the body because of insufficient light.


Image two, I agree with OhLook on the low angle not being particularly flattering. Also, her left foot almost seems detached from her left leg and the shadow on the wall is too distracting.

In my personal opinion, she would benefit from being separated from the wall and shot at the right angle with softer light.. But what do I know? Really nothing...I just paint.

gonzogolf wrote in post #18789009
You might want to look into some lighting techniques that are designed for beauty lighting. Clamshell would be good. The crosslighting you are doing is a bit dramaticfor the subjects pose and outfit. The dark shadows just don't work here. Do a YouTube search for Joel grimes to see how you can improve the softness of your light to fit the subject.

OhLook wrote in post #18789100
I agree. You're getting too much chiaroscuro, with sharp transitions. In Shot #1, her hair shades part of the eye area that would be good to feature.

Shot #2, camera was too low for a flattering angle.

itsallart wrote in post #18789115
I'm a lousy photographer but I paint a lot of photo-realistic paintings and lighting is something that I understand very well without knowing how yo apply it to photography, so take my feedback with a grain of salt, please.
In the first image her left arm (right in photo) looks almost detached from the body because of insufficient light.


Image two, I agree with OhLook on the low angle not being particularly flattering. Also, her left foot almost seems detached from her left leg and the shadow on the wall is too distracting.

In my personal opinion, she would benefit from being separated from the wall and shot at the right angle with softer light.. But what do I know? Really nothing...I just paint.

EXACTLY the feed back im looking for. although i WAS trying to have some edgy lighting, now i see the error of my ways with the casual attire shes wearing. i should have changed up my lighting scheme. (see title again for cheap excuse; it being only my 2nd time)

chiaroscuro. theres one i had to look up.

any thoughts on the 2nd post with the dropbox link? i believe those to be much better, from the same shoot...

Ltdave wrote in post #18789196
EXACTLY the feed back im looking for. although i WAS trying to have some edgy lighting, now i see the error of my ways with the casual attire shes wearing. i should have changed up my lighting scheme. (see title again for cheap excuse; it being only my 2nd time)

chiaroscuro. theres one i had to look up.

any thoughts on the 2nd post with the dropbox link? i believe those to be much better, from the same shoot...

Well, some are nice but I think that the focus is off on some. Shots no 1, 2, 3 and 5 are good but 8 is a little too low...I prefer shots not up her nose, but that's me.

itsallart wrote in post #18789335
Well, some are nice but I think that the focus is off on some. Shots no 1, 2, 3 and 5 are good but 8 is a little too low...I prefer shots not up her nose, but that's me.

from my first post:

watched a video on youtube that said, if you shoot a little lower, it will help with the illusion of height. shes only about 5'6". that and ive seen many images where the model is looking up. but in this case, i was actually 2 steps (maybe 1?) above her in a stairwell, and needed the head tilt to get some light on her face...

thank you for looking though! it is appreciated

I think you're definitely on the right track for these photos. It really just takes a lot of practice and studying the images as you work on them in post-production. The take what you've learned and do another shoot. Wash, rinse, repeat! I'll let others give advice on the posing, but thought I would share few thoughts on the camera end.

Be sure to shoot in RAW – you will be able to adjust your photos a lot more in editing than jpeg. (You're probably doing this already).

Stick to an aperture around 7.1 to 8. That will put your 24-70 in the sweet spot of the lens in terms of maximum sharpness. It will also help in having a greater depth-of-field so nothing on the face gets soft when focused on the eye. By stopping down your lens you're going to need more light though. You can definitely bring your ISO up a bit if needed - your camera will do fine at ISO 200/400/800 if needed. If you like the very shallow depth of field that's fine as well, but I'd suggest starting out stopped down a bit.

If you move your umbrellas as close to your subject as possible you will get softer shadows. Remember that the larger the light source, the softer the shadows and smoother the gradients will be. Hard shadows can be nice as well if that's what you're aiming for. Note that your 600ex-rt puts out about 10% of what a studio strobe puts out, so it will struggle to shoot through an umbrella and still put out enough light to fill the umbrella and light the subject at a distance.

Here's a great YouTube video that's worth checking out: https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=D2HVEaje4K0

Hope this helps.

diveguy wrote in post #18789837
I think you're definitely on the right track for these photos. It really just takes a lot of practice and studying the images as you work on them in post-production. The take what you've learned and do another shoot. Wash, rinse, repeat! I'll let others give advice on the posing, but thought I would share few thoughts on the camera end.

Be sure to shoot in RAW – you will be able to adjust your photos a lot more in editing than jpeg. (You're probably doing this already).

Stick to an aperture around 7.1 to 8. That will put your 24-70 in the sweet spot of the lens in terms of maximum sharpness. It will also help in having a greater depth-of-field so nothing on the face gets soft when focused on the eye. By stopping down your lens you're going to need more light though. You can definitely bring your ISO up a bit if needed - your camera will do fine at ISO 200/400/800 if needed. If you like the very shallow depth of field that's fine as well, but I'd suggest starting out stopped down a bit.

If you move your umbrellas as close to your subject as possible you will get softer shadows. Remember that the larger the light source, the softer the shadows and smoother the gradients will be. Hard shadows can be nice as well if that's what you're aiming for. Note that your 600ex-rt puts out about 10% of what a studio strobe puts out, so it will struggle to shoot through an umbrella and still put out enough light to fill the umbrella and light the subject at a distance.

Here's a great YouTube video that's worth checking out: https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=D2HVEaje4K0

Hope this helps.

yep on RAW. ive got a little 7.1m PS and that only shoots jpeg. its the only time i shoot jpegs! learned long ago that RAW is where its at...

i agree on the DOF, but as you can see the wrinkles, i already had her at the front edge of the backdrop (as it draped to the floor) and wanted to minimize the wrinkles as much as possible and since i didnt really have a good smooth white wall to shoot against (the brick) i was hoping to avoid sharp edged bricks. but i will stop down a bit more for now. thanks...

Lily had really wild eye makeup when i first saw her and (since im not very polished with lighting yet) i wanted some contrasty hard edged lighting. not her fault, but her outfit and makeup did not lend itself to the easiest lighting i know. practice practice practice...

ive had pretty good results with the 600 i thought. i did some high key with 3 lights (described in post 2) and i thought they looked really good other than poses or hair or model nervousness/tension (they just didnt look right from an overall point of view but the lighting looked good) i found if i played around a bit with umbrella depth (how far into the holder i clamp it) and with the zoom head set manually to 20 or 24 i can get the light the full width of the umbrella, but ill try bigger and closer for softer. maybe i can convince my daughter to stand in for me...

ill check the youtube, thanks! theres lots and lots of videos on lighting and posing and some is easy to follow and some not so much...

Ltdave wrote in post #18788704
saw this girl at a local hockey game with some crazy wild eye makeup. she was with a friend's daughter so i networked to get in touch for some shooting.

ive got a rudimentary + grasp on lighting (not that it always works the way i want it to!) but posing/directing a model is something ive got ZERO experience and marginally more than zero confidence in doing.

i shoot with Canon 600ex-rt in shoot through and reflector umbrellas.

we set up a date and she shows up. no flaking here! unfortunately her makeup wasnt as edgy as it was (or seemed) from the week prior. i did ask her to bring an off the shoulder top so i could get a head shot, bare shoulder and white background (posted in Headshots, and in another thread of mine re: elastic/strap marks on skin, in Glamour Talk)

some of the shots look better in black and white but (again as i mentioned) i think i need some MFA because the eyes are JUST MISSING on super sharp focus.

Hosted photo: posted by Ltdave in
./showthread.php?p=187​88704&i=i140075472
forum: Fashion, Editorial & Commercial

Hosted photo: posted by Ltdave in
./showthread.php?p=187​88704&i=i108456913
forum: Fashion, Editorial & Commercial

these were deliberately shot with strong contrasty light, something i saw on a couple of youtube videos. the wrinkles in the muslin were NOT deliberate but since it spends most of its life loosely it is what it is. not sure how to fix in post (LR)

my only suggestion on the first image, is to turn her hand more to the side. Hands flat to the camera are unattractive. Keep working and you will get there!!