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Thread started 11 Jan 2019 (Friday) 12:49
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JOB PRICING

 
showtm490
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Jan 11, 2019 12:49 |  #1

A local pool company contacted me about doing photos of pools they built. There are 4-5 pools within 15 miles of me and another 6-8 about 1.5hrs north of me. I'm thinking it'll take 4-5 days for the shoots plus 1-2 days editing. If they love them I'll be kept on to continue shooting the pools after they're built. They'll be using the photos on their website once built, newspaper ads and social media. I'm lost at what to charge them, any recommendations?


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archfotos
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Post edited 4 days ago by archfotos. (6 edits in all)
     
Jan 12, 2019 09:26 |  #2

Personally I think you are underestimating the amount of work/time required for descent images and therefore and going to need to bother the home owner with reschedules plus two days of processing for five days of shootings? A lot of times people present a big scope so you give a reasonable price then back down to what they originally needed and you are stuck having to reduce your proposal down to an unreasonable number (for you). Do they really have home owner access to ten pools in a two week time period??? :rolleyes: in the winter

You need to know your CODB or any number given online is going to be irrelevant. If I tell you to estimate the job at $9,000 what good does that number mean to you?

P.S. Any additional work promises... ugh! such a lame tactic anymore - let that sales pitch go in one ear and out the other. Discounting your price because of future work at best means any future work will need to go for that discounted price but more times than not it is and empty fake promise to try and get you to lower your costs. People need photography when they have an urgent deadline (website rebuild) not because they want to keep their stuff up to date


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Jan 12, 2019 10:02 |  #3

There is not enough information to quote a fee. If I read your post correctly, you expect to spend about two hours at each location and your processing proofs, editing selects and delivery is about two hours per location? Without knowing the details I would agree with archfotos estimate as a starting point. My experience tells me that it'd take two hours at each location just to unload, setup then pack it back up and not include however many setups you'll shoot. As they say, the devil is in the details and the more information you have the better.


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Jan 12, 2019 11:43 |  #4


  1. Any quantified fee quoted by someone in a different part of the country than you will be totally irrelevant to the economics of the area in which you and your client are found
  2. Any quantified fee quoted some someone for a non-specific usage (which uses and what quantities of circulation) will be totally irrelevant to the circumstances in which your client wishes to use your photos


...after all, pricing in metropolitan LA or NYC is nothing like pricing the same task for Arcata CA or Parkersberg WV
And a printed run of 500 leaflets is nothing like an ad run in ten months of People Magazine


As generic principles only...

  • Consider your time spent, and how you value your time...but do not fall into the trap of valuing your time spent in photography at the same rate as your time spent getting to and from the shooting locations, or at the same rate as your time spent on general administrative tasks for the job, or at the same rate as your time spent in post processing
  • Consider any and ALL costs incurred by you, including gas and wear and tear on your vehicle and general operating expenses for maintanence of your vehicle
  • Consider HOW your client wishes to use your photos, and HOW MANY copies in circulation for photos used in brochures/pamphlets, etc. ...that is the usual practice. But you may decide it is best to set a simple fee that covers a variety of uses, although you may want to set time window for usage, and extension of the window is subject to renegotiation.

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showtm490
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Jan 12, 2019 13:52 |  #5

Thank you all.

The company has spoken to the home owners so getting access is no issue. We have the codes, etc to get in. The pools I'll be shooting are in high end neighborhoods so I've been told to go the days after the yard/pool work has been done. Most are in the Atlanta area which is 1.5hrs north of me. The company builds specialized pools that are unique.

I've been doing landscapes for years but this is new to me as far as pricing. I don't want to over or under price myself. I was recommended to them by their financial advisor as he told them he's enjoyed my photos over the years. Honestly I just don't want to blow it by throwing out a high number. Some around my area are saying between $1000-2500 but like yall are saying, it could take a week or more just to do the shoots. I also mentioned to the company I've never seen these places so I don't know when the sun and shade will be right for lighting.

Also I'll be bringing an assistant along to help load, unloaded, move stuff, etc so I'll need to factor that in.


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archfotos
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Jan 12, 2019 14:24 as a reply to  @ showtm490's post |  #6

No one from the Atlanta area is quoting four days of professional photography at $2,500 in fact I would question if you could find any service (mechanic, plumber, etc...) that will bring expensive tools onto location for four days and charge only that!?!


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Jan 12, 2019 14:26 |  #7

Then you need to factor in the assistant's wage and the location scouting time into your final quote. Over $1000 for the whole job (not per pool/day) is not unreasonable. If you were assisting someone shooting this, how much would you want per hour?


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Jan 12, 2019 14:30 |  #8

I lived in Atlanta for fourteen years and have been an hour away for another four, I wouldn’t touch the project for less than $2000 a day plus editing without more details. Will there be people in the images, a Stylist to prop or do you just show up and shoot whatever is there?

BTW, I suggest that you have your paperwork in order before scheduling or there will be problems later.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Jan 12, 2019 20:58 |  #9

In addition to the above point there is another major piece of info missing - the shot list.

Are you planning to shoot just one shot of each pool or do they want a selection? What about close-ups of details (patterns/designs), furniture (steps/ladders/outlets​). Are there things that the client def wants in the shots or def does not want? What about dressing the surroundings?

Also how about time of day? Is the client going to turn around after the fact and say "Err all the pools light up, we really wanted some night/twilight shots".

On the post front what is needed? A bit of cropping and cloning or do they want full on multi-shot composites/hdr? What about skies? If it is grey and overcast will they be happy with that or will they want sky replacement. Also are you set up to handle keystoning in any of the shots that include buildings?

Your client works on high end properties. It is entirely possible that their only exposure to photography is high end real-estate/architectural photography. Have they shown you examples of what they are expecting quality-wise?


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archfotos
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Jan 14, 2019 08:08 |  #10

Allow me to say one last thought then I will exit your thread. Long time ago when I was making the transition from assistant to full time I was asked for a proposal that required a large number(for me at the time) I really really wanted the project for my portfolio, but I also knew of the production required.

I presented my proposal and was called back by the AD a couple of times discussing the price I stood my ground and explained the production. In the end I didn't get the job, but I felt so much better as a business for standing my ground for a fair price. Anyone can lowball but you're not a professional unless you can stand your ground for a fair price.

What I'm trying to say is you might lose a job, but knowing you fought for a fair price will be much better for your business in the long run.


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Post edited 2 days ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 14, 2019 08:17 |  #11

Ignorant questions/comments on my part...

1) What equipment are you bringing that you need an assistant? I could see some lights on stands for closeups of different aspects of the pool, and a ladder to get up high to get different perspectives of the pools, but I wouldn't think that entails a 2nd person, the more you can do yourself, the less you have to share. ;)

2) You will want different angles/perspectives of course, then down low, shots of parts of the pool showing the company's workmanship, tile work, etc.

3) I would charge an hourly trip charge at one rate, and a photographic rate for the time at the site and post processing. I don't think they should be the same, unless this travel time is eliminating other photographic work, and it doesn't sound like it.

4) If you think you can get into the door for more work, then set up your terms, but give a "new customer discount". This way you can have your target rate for future work laid out, but they can pay less for these initial jobs.


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archfotos
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Jan 14, 2019 08:59 |  #12

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18791375 (external link)
Ignorant questions/comments on my part...

yes you're right ignorant question on your part, ask this how much do you think it's going to cost to have a paver fixed because it got scratched by dragging patio furniture around the pool? How much is a doctor going to cost for lifting a glass patio table by yourself? what if you cracked the rich home owner's patio center piece would a $300 assistant been good insight? Or would you just shrug it off and go back to your day job and tell the pool company well I guess the home owner can bad mouth your(pool) company to the neighborhood?


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Jan 14, 2019 09:56 |  #13

archfotos wrote in post #18791400 (external link)
yes you're right ignorant question on your part, ask this how much do you think it's going to cost to have a paver fixed because it got scratched by dragging patio furniture around the pool? How much is a doctor going to cost for lifting a glass patio table by yourself? what if you cracked the rich home owner's patio center piece would a $300 assistant been good insight? Or would you just shrug it off and go back to your day job and tell the pool company well I guess the home owner can bad mouth your(pool) company to the neighborhood?

I, as a homeowner would not want you moving my furniture around, but that is me. Also, if the pool company wants these pictures, they could easily supply a person to come along as well to help at no additional cost to the photographer, especially if they are bonded, and you as a budding photographer, isn't, and you are working on their behalf.

If you are afraid of damage, having an assistant won't stop that, nor will it stop a homeowner from saying there was damage created, when there wasn't. Also, unless you are insured and bonded, you shouldn't be touching anything anyways, assistant or not. This is why if there is help needed in moving things around, the pool company should get that affirmation by the customer and then also supply assistance since it is their business relationship you are under. Homeowners can be fickle, presumptuous, and even opportunistic, so care has to be taken if you are messing with personal belongings.

It isn't a bad idea to even set up another camera with a wideangle in video mode recording the session should this all be a big worry. I have no idea if the TS is bonded or not, if he has done landscaping photos in the past, perhaps that insurance is already in place, but it still isn't a bad idea to see if the company will supply a helping hand to come along, this way there is no additional pay to worry about.

Also in regards to moving tables around, there are some very nifty inventions that really help movement of furniture around a patio area (at least single levels, not up and down stairs) for one person to do that work.

Finally, I do have my photos of pools already in marketing material here locally. I actually struck up a relationship with the customer in the one situation where their pool/deck, etc was "busy" and they moved things around as I obtained shots. ;) I appreciate your fervor, but your attitude to my post? Not so much.

Back to the pricing of these, for the most part, these aren't much more than real estate photos, except you are photographing one "room" pretty extensively. Personally, I would use high end real estate pricing rates for this work, then add on travel expenses. Just about the same amount of work is involved, especially if you do any kind of staging in a room for the listing photos.


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Jan 14, 2019 12:26 |  #14

I have a small piece of advice coming from someone who makes a living in an unrelated industry and who photographs as a hobby. I personally would break this up into 1 pool at a time. I would imagine that I am simply shooting 1 pool, then I would add up all costs to shoot that 1 pool. Then I would just multiply that by however many total pools you intend to shoot. The only drawback would be travel time is difficult to calculate if you price it this way, especially if you plan to shoot multiple sites in one day. Also, I would be asking for a down payment for sure. I would be asking for my calculated travel expenses up front AT MINIMUM.




  
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showtm490
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Jan 14, 2019 16:57 |  #15

Whew a lot of replies that have me thinking.


Why do I need an assistant? I'm a wheelchair user so getting into places can be tough. If I need to drag my portable ramp out along with camera gear it helps to have help. Plus if there's trash, sticks, etc they can help clear the way.

I spoke to the company last night. There's five pools within 30 minutes of me and seven 1.5hrs north in the Buckhead/Atlanta area. TRAFFIC JAM CITY!!! I told her I'd shoot two this week in my area as rain is moving in to see how much time each one takes. I also told her it maybe four or more trips to the Atlanta area. I told her I'd then could do an estimate.

The pool company also maintains the pools weekly. She has asked the home owners to remove anything from around the pools that doesn't have anything to do with the pool the day I'm to come so hopefully nothing needs moving.


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