EOS R - g.a.s. or sensible sugestion?

I suspect I'm suffering from g.a.s. but would like opinions from others at this stage.

For a bit of history, I've been shooting a 1D3 until 5 months ago when I managed to convince the accountant that a second-hand high mileage 1D-X was a much better option (>500k shutter count, that had a new shutter fitted by Canon)
I mostly shoot kids sports - football & karate, along with a bit of aviation, nothing professional (i.e. paid)

I bought a M5 and 18-150mm a while back as a sort of take-everywhere camera which I find functions okay, but focus is slow & general operation is very slow & I often miss shots because of this which really frustrates me. I'm not a big fan of it's electronic viewfinder also, not sure if it's because I wear glasses but it doesn't really work for me.

Later this year we plan on spending 4 weeks in the UK primarily for my family to compete in a a Karate tournament, and then some holiday time, and a week in Paris so I'm really torn between lugging the bulky/heavy 1D-X around and getting shots I'll be happy with, and taking the much lighter M5 and getting frustrated with missing shots I know the 1D-X would have nailed.
One of the activities I want to attend in the UK is an airshow (Flying Legends in Duxford) would need my 100-400mm for. Not that I really want to carry two big lenses, but the karate tournament will likely need the 70-200mm f/2.8 as will be inside with probably average arena lighting

although I can probably put one lens into checked baggage, was wondering if looking at trading the 1D-X for an EOS R body might be the answer to some of the weight issue...
renting is financially not possible.

anyone want to comment around the suitability of an EOS R body vs what I currently have? Does the Eos R EVF work a lot better than the one on the M5?

The R would definitely get the shots you would with the 1Dx, just a lot fewer of them. Set your max fps to 3 or 4 and see how it works for karate. As for saving weight, you might feel its not as balanced with your big lenses. Apparently the viewfinder is a peach tho.

Have you gone into a store and tried an R?
They are not selling well (Progear sold less than 2) so you could likely get to borrow one for a day and have a play with it.

The biggest problem is it's not a mature system, and it is a consumer level entry into the APS mirror-less market.
That doesn't mean it's a bad camera, it just means it won't focus anything like as well as your 1D and it is not fast camera for sports.
In low light it gets even worse, with the usual issues that any electronic view finder has with blurring, loss of details, low frame rate etc.
It's essentially the focus performance of a 5D4 when used in live view only mode with a much lower speed burst.

You will find something like an 80D is similar in size, is lighter, and gets close on the burst mode, because it has a view finder has better focus in low light for action.
Even 6D2 is similar weight, but will easily out focus an EOS-R.

Way out idea to consider, would you like to borrow my Lumix g9?

bildeb0rg wrote in post #18799822
The R would definitely get the shots you would with the 1Dx, just a lot fewer of them. Set your max fps to 3 or 4 and see how it works for karate. As for saving weight, you might feel its not as balanced with your big lenses. Apparently the viewfinder is a peach tho.

thanks - I think I can live with the fewer fps, as I usually pick my shots rather than burst, but then it's always better to have the ability

Moppie wrote in post #18799826
Have you gone into a store and tried an R?
They are not selling well (Progear sold less than 2) so you could likely get to borrow one for a day and have a play with it.

The biggest problem is it's not a mature system, and it is a consumer level entry into the APS mirror-less market.
That doesn't mean it's a bad camera, it just means it won't focus anything like as well as your 1D and it is not fast camera for sports.
In low light it gets even worse, with the usual issues that any electronic view finder has with blurring, loss of details, low frame rate etc.
It's essentially the focus performance of a 5D4 when used in live view only mode with a much lower speed burst.

You will find something like an 80D is similar in size, is lighter, and gets close on the burst mode, because it has a view finder has better focus in low light for action.
Even 6D2 is similar weight, but will easily out focus an EOS-R.

I haven't handled an eos R, reading a few reviews seems like it is a lot better than the M5 speed-wise, hard to tell exactly how much better without spending a bit of time with one.
Will go & have a look at one in store & see if I can get a comparison with 6D2 or 80D

kiwichris wrote in post #18799832
Way out idea to consider, would you like to borrow my Lumix g9?

Thanks very much for the offer - I'm not sure which direction I'm heading at the moment, will certainly think about it. cheers.

My belief is that a mirrorless camera does not in itself save you much at all in the way of size and weight. A mirrorless camera will only be a little smaller than a DSLR with the same sensor size, and that is also true of the lenses. When you are carrying a camera system rather than just a camera body then 4 or 5 lenses become much more significant than the body.
Body size is also directly related to ergonomics too, and sometimes bigger is better for that. The integrated vertical grip on your 1D is a good demonstration of that.
Which brings me to micro 4/3 and the G9. I love my G9. It is a very capable camera. The smaller sensor enables high quality, tiny, lightweight lenses which I love. You can carry a full range of lenses easily in carry-on.
Having said that, if my primary use case was dimly lit indoor sports, I’m not sure that I would choose the G9. It is certainly fast enough, with a great EVF, auto focus, and amazing IS. The image quality is plenty good enough for the 20x30” prints I have hanging on my walls, but those are static subjects. If I was regularly shooting fast moving subjects in low light, I think I would want a bigger sensor. There is no such thing as a free lunch after all.
A different system also means buying new lenses which gets very spendy.
All this is a very long winded way of saying “keep what you have” or if you want to save the size of the vertical grip then get a canon model without one - either mirrorless or DSLR. But don’t expect a huge difference.
My 2c

I have shot the M50 with some sports, I set up back button focusing and AI Servo on single point, and it does decently. I wonder what makes the M5 problematic.

Does it have to be Canon?

There are a lot of other males and models other than canon. Some of them are really good.

Personally, I’m in the same boat, camera wise.

I still have yet to give up my 1Dx. First thing I’d miss is the portrait orientation shutter button. Second, battery life. Add a grip and another battery, more cost and weight. New cards, adapters, etc, you get the drift. Third, while the R seems to have good weather sealing, I doubt it’s better than a 1-series, yet.

Not sure if the adapters from Canon help retain weather sealing or not? Native RF lenses are at a serious premium, especially for hobbyists, unless $’s are burning large holes in ones pocket. Sure, you can use said adapter with EF lenses, for now, and wait for more premium RF lenses...and their prices...but, then why not just stick to a 1Dx, because by the time you add all that, you are back to the same ole size camera, save for a slight bit of weight (talking gms here).

Sure, it’s newer tech, but, based on their cycles it won’t be long before another new one is out. As is, the current R was supposed to ‘supplement’ a 1-series, or others, not quite replace it. You have the M series cam, which the R would take the spot of, in my opinion. GL with the decision. I know it’s been a tough one for me.

The EOS R may not be the solution for your camera kit.

I was pondering a 1DX myself in the interim until a version ii of the EOS R comes out, then I remind myself how wonderful it is to have bodies the size of the 5DS and EOS R. I have the M5 too, and it's a bit tiny. But I hope to contrain myself from getting a 1DX or 1DX ii, etc..

scotttnz wrote in post #18800274
My belief is that a mirrorless camera does not in itself save you much at all in the way of size and weight.
My 2c

cheers Scott - my thinking is even using the same current EF lenses that I have (depends on wether it's 16-35mm or 100-400mm of course), the camera weight is still a considerable amount of the total. E.G. the eos r is roughly the same weight as the G9 (0.66Kg), and when you add the 110g worth of RF-EF adapter comes out at about 0.77Kg
The 1D-X on it's own is 1.34Kg...

Mark0159 wrote in post #18800384
Does it have to be Canon?

Probably - or at least something that works extremely well with EF lenses, as I just can't afford to change lens/camera systems.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18800333
I have shot the M50 with some sports, I set up back button focusing and AI Servo on single point, and it does decently. I wonder what makes the M5 problematic.

Thanks TS - I think from the specs I've seen, the M5 has around twice the shutter lag of the M50 so that would make M50 "feel" a lot faster.
On the M5 I've often found it won't take a shot when I need it to - even though it looks focussed, the focus system thinks it's not & won't release the shutter. And by the time it's got it's ducks in a row, the thing I've wanted to shoot isn't there any more. It could just be faulty but I think it happens more in bright sunlight which makes seeing the rear LCD difficult.
All good with subjects that don't move & you can spend the time getting it to fire, but a right royal P.I.T.A. if you've missed the shot by then.

I will look into BBF focussing though, might improve things...

It's not that the EOS-R is amazingly small/light, it's that you're comparing it to a 1D which is comparatively massive.

A EOS-R + EF-adapter, for example, I don't believe is any lighter than a 6Dii - especially when you take into consideration then extra EOS-R batteries you'd need to bring to match the battery life (6Dii works out lighter). The 6Dii may not have the best AF system, but it's certainly not bad (fine for airshow demands IMO) and the live-view AF is great. It has an OVF. Its low-light performance is really quite good. I'm not sure getting rid of the 1DX would be a great idea, however a 6Dii is a LOT cheaper than an EOS-R and so perhaps this way you could justify owning both for now. Food for thought.

phreeky wrote in post #18800518
It's not that the EOS-R is amazingly small/light, it's that you're comparing it to a 1D which is comparatively massive.

A EOS-R + EF-adapter, for example, I don't believe is any lighter than a 6Dii - especially when you take into consideration then extra EOS-R batteries you'd need to bring to match the battery life (6Dii works out lighter). The 6Dii may not have the best AF system, but it's certainly not bad (fine for airshow demands IMO) and the live-view AF is great. It has an OVF. Its low-light performance is really quite good. I'm not sure getting rid of the 1DX would be a great idea, however a 6Dii is a LOT cheaper than an EOS-R and so perhaps this way you could justify owning both for now. Food for thought.

Yep.
EOS-R 660g.
6D 755g.
1DX 1340g! Just over double an EOS-R.

I suspect the ability to mount L lenses means it will focus better and faster than the M, it should also have a faster processor.
But it's slow slow and laggy compared to a 80D or a 6D.

I think you would regret ditching the 1DX for an R.
I'm 16 days into the R. (4 days a week shooting it over 4 weeks).

Canon INC made a comment about the R. Words to effect: It makes a great addition.

I think that is it in a nutshell. I added the R. There are aspects of it I like. I don't regret buying it. (I jumped on the first discount I found since release, 20% off RRP)
There are aspects I don't like however.
I am certain if I had of replaced any DSLR I have owned in the last 10 years I would have regretted it.