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Thread started 30 Jan 2019 (Wednesday) 15:29
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Behavior of zoom lens focus

 
Frodge
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Frodge.
     
Jan 30, 2019 15:29 |  #1

I have a Tamron 70-300 VC. It was snowing out today. Grey day. I’m not sure if this is what made me notice this. What is the correct AF behavior of a lens like this. Let’s for instance say I’m shooting at a deer but the lens is focused at 70mm close to where I am (10 feet or so) If I point the camera out to the deer at lets say 100 yards give or take, at 300mm, The view will be blurry as expected. When I press the shutter down halfway, should it focus the deer, or should I have to zoom to get it within my field of vision to get the focus to work because of the fact the focus was set to 70mm at approximately 10-15 feet away from me initially? Basically the simple version of what I’m asking is that if the camera has auto focused at lets say 70mm at something within 25 feet, and then I turn the zoom to 300mm (without pressing the shutter in between these two actions) point it out in a field 100 yards or more, the viewfinder will naturally be blurry. When I press the shutter, should it focus at that spot far away? Or would I need to pull the zoom back towards 70mm where the viewfinder was no longer blurry to achieve initial focus? So basically does the lens have to have some sort of focus through the viewfinder before af can kick in? Or should it be able to pull in focus from totally out of focus like described above?


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Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
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apersson850
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Jan 30, 2019 15:40 |  #2

Both. You set which way it should work with an AF function. How you set it depends on which camera body you use. Look in the manual for Lens drive when focusing is impossible or similar.


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Frodge
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Post edited over 4 years ago by Frodge.
     
Jan 30, 2019 15:46 as a reply to  @ apersson850's post |  #3

Thanks. Little more info...,,

I’m using a 60d. I just updated firmware from 1.1.1 to 1.1.2. I also set it back to defaults. I do t remember if it did this or not. How to I fix it to focus on what I’m looking st immediately...,


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Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
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Post edited over 4 years ago by -Duck-. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 30, 2019 16:02 |  #4

Very well asked question. Here is my take on long zooms;

The simple answer is, "it depends on the lens AND the camera." Which doesn't answer anything but it does give a hint to the overall way lenses can work, which is all over the place. Some are better (quicker) at finding and picking the focus point, some less so. Whether you have an expensive lens or an inexpensive one, the physics behind what is required are the same.

First you must understand that the construction of a multi-element lens is very complex. A lot of the interior lens elements need to shift around in order to get an image into focus. With a variable zoom lens, the action is compounded because all those elements need to be able to focus throughout the entirety of the focal range of the lens. For a 70mm lens the action can be pretty simple since the focal range doesn't change. With, let's say a 70-200mm lens, the elements must be able to focus at 70mm, at 200mm and at every step of the way in between.

Using your example, when you are focused on something near you at 70mm, all the elements are positioned to bring that subject into focus. Once focus is captured it doesn't take the lens too much effort to go from 70mm to 100mm because the internal elements may not need to shift a great deal. All that is changing is the field of view. However, when you bring the camera up to the deer in the distance and you want to zoom in, both the field of view AND the focal plane need to shift internally. Here is where different systems handle the task differently.

Most cameras use contrast to find focus, meaning it looks for 'contrasting edges' either with light or color, and uses that as a guide to gain focus. The more focus points a camera has the better it may be at finding focus. There are also two types of focus points, vertical line sensors and cross (vertical and horizontal) line sensors to detect that contrast. Cross types work best. The quicker the camera can detect that local contrast on a focus point the quicker it can gain focus.

Understanding that, the solution to your problem is dependant on your given situation. If your camera has only a few points of focus and if you have only a few cross type focus points (which is common in less expensive and older cameras) you will have a hard time gaining fast focus. Also, if you point at your subject and there is not enough contrast on a focus point your camera will have trouble and will 'hunt' to find focus. To get around this, yes, manually getting the subject into relative focus by hand as you go from one extreme to the other will help immensely. Also, placing your focus point(s) on something with contrast also helps the lens gain focus. For example, if you have nine focus points and only the center point is cross type and you place that on the body of the deer... a smoothly textured, evenly colored body of a deer with little contrast, the lens will likely have trouble gaining fast focus. Place that center spot at the edge of, for example, a white spot or black of an eye and your chances of finding focus increases exponentially.

Hope these tips help.


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Frodge
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Jan 30, 2019 16:19 |  #5

Great reply! I understand it totally. When I went from 70mm from a closer focus to 300mm at further distance, the lens didn’t even hunt when halfway pressing the button, it didn’t do anything. Like I said, it was grey out. Not sure if that matters much. Once I zoomed in a little and pressed it achieved focus and then I was fine. I just can’t recall if this is normal for this lens or not, and I’ve owned it for a while.


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“It's kind of fun to do the impossible.” - Walt Disney.
Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
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Jan 30, 2019 16:33 |  #6

Thanks for all the help. Apersson was correct. I went into the menu and switched the drive mode from 1 back to zero. Now it attains focus no matter what.


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Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
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Jan 31, 2019 04:28 |  #7

It's quite a common mistake. There are a few questions about it every year here.
The AF system in the camera (phase detect AF) works in a way where it can not only see that you are in focus, but also how much you are out of focus, and in which direction. Hence, when you aim at a new target, at a different distance, the camera can immediately set the correct focus.
However, with lenses with long focal lengths, like when you go to 300 mm with your zoom lens, you can end up outside the measurement range for the AF system, if the lens is grossly defocused. In such a case the camera can't determine in which direction, and how much, to adjust the lens to acquire focus again.
What it can do is doing a full search. Run the focus setting from one end to the other, and check if something comes into focus somewhere. This works, but takes time. Thus you may not want to do this, if you are taking photos of something at a certain distance, with a long lens. Like if you are trying to focus on an aircraft. Just because you happen to aim beside it for a moment, you don't want the camera to scan for something in focus all the way down to minimum focusing distance and back, when you know that the aircraft is at about the same distance as before. You just need to get the AF point back on the craft.

This is the reason for why the setting for Lens drive when focusing is impossible exists at all.


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Jan 31, 2019 10:16 |  #8

Frodge wrote in post #18801586 (external link)
I have a Tamron 70-300 VC. It was snowing out today. Grey day. I’m not sure if this is what made me notice this. What is the correct AF behavior of a lens like this. Let’s for instance say I’m shooting at a deer but the lens is focused at 70mm close to where I am (10 feet or so) If I point the camera out to the deer at lets say 100 yards give or take, at 300mm, The view will be blurry as expected. When I press the shutter down halfway, should it focus the deer, or should I have to zoom to get it within my field of vision to get the focus to work because of the fact the focus was set to 70mm at approximately 10-15 feet away from me initially? Basically the simple version of what I’m asking is that if the camera has auto focused at lets say 70mm at something within 25 feet, and then I turn the zoom to 300mm (without pressing the shutter in between these two actions) point it out in a field 100 yards or more, the viewfinder will naturally be blurry. When I press the shutter, should it focus at that spot far away? Or would I need to pull the zoom back towards 70mm where the viewfinder was no longer blurry to achieve initial focus? So basically does the lens have to have some sort of focus through the viewfinder before af can kick in? Or should it be able to pull in focus from totally out of focus like described above?

Snow can sometimes trigger the AF system, especially if large flakes and heavy snowfall. The camera focusses on the nearest object=snow.




  
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Frodge
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Jan 31, 2019 14:53 |  #9

Thanks guys!


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“It's kind of fun to do the impossible.” - Walt Disney.
Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
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Jan 31, 2019 19:02 |  #10

If it's snowing, you may be facing a manual focusing situation because flakes and subjects are scattered from lens to near infinity.


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Behavior of zoom lens focus
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