Does anyone shoot ((moving) wildlife) with the Canon 7DMll and the original Canon 600mm f/4 IS?

Hey.

I hope this is an appropriate question both for the forum in general and this section.

After more than ten years, I have basically had to stop shooting all together and am in dispute with Canon.

Though there is much (muuuuuucchh...) more I can write (And perhaps I will later.), the bottom line is that the company is telling me that the absolutely unsalvageable images I'm getting across the board are the best I can expect from the combination, which I began using in 2017. The problems are primarily with focus and tracking seems to exacerbate it. I've been shooting mostly ducks on the water.

It performs much better on very close, stationary subjects.

I'd prefer not to get into any instructional discussion or debate and won't be posting images. That's not my intention here.

Please trust this has been going on for a long time and has been widely addressed, tested, etc., and the company itself even acknowledges no fault on my part based upon about 60 files sent (just this last time). It is simply telling me that my camera and lens can't work together successfully. My camera has 30,000 actuations in two years with the combo and I have only a few dozen images I've printed for sale.

I'd just like to know if others are producing sharp (printable for sale at 11 x 14 as a guide) images with the pair, particularly of the kind (distant, still or slowly moving subjects) I described.

Thanks for any consideration.
Brett

Brett - Your post is short on specifics and I can understand why. The only thing I can tell you is that I owned the V1 of the lens briefly and the V2 slightly longer. The V2 was an improvement all around but the V1 is no slouch. I can't see why you would be having this issue with the V1 unless you were using extenders. For some reason mine didn't get along with them very for AF tracking well which is why I went for the V2. Problem solved. Also keep in mind that the 7D2 will not drive the AF as fast as a 1D body with with this lens. If you think there is a legitimate issue and you believe you are in the right I encourage you to keep it up with Canon. I had a huge issue with Canon with one of my 5D4s. I'll spare you the details but when my letter was sent threatening to go legal it got resolved. Have you tried a different service centre?

bmknj17 wrote in post #18809757
After more than ten years, I have basically had to stop shooting all together and am in dispute with Canon.

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Instead of just not shooting anymore, you could just use a different camera. . Wildlife photography is so important that whether to do it or not to do it far transcends any problems one might have with any particular body or lens or combination thereof.


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Hey Judo.

I appreciate both the prompt reply and the accepting of my intent.

That said, whether or not there is an issue, I should be covered since--I only want to offer details here as needed--when I bought the lens used, I did so with the agreement with the seller that I'd be free to return it if Canon didn't give it a clean bill of health, which it did, assuring me that while I couldn't expect the combination to perform as well as the camera might with the newer version of the lens, it would still produce great images (Why else would I have kept it?).

So someone wasn't or isn't being honest. Trust there is much, much more to be said in this area.

If you don't mind answering (via private message if you'd prefer), were you able to communicate with the executive office in New York via any means other than regular mail? After being referred down to executive escalations with which I communicated via phone, I have to mail a second letter via regular mail and wait for a response.

How, btw, did you threaten legal action?

And I never tried another service center (short of eventually having the pair calibrated elsewhere) because I was assured the fault was mine.

Again, thanks.
Brett

Hey Tom.

In addition to the enormous financial factors and ramifications, hopefully my response to Judo will clarify why, while yes, that's an option, it is not a solution to my problem.

Trust further than Canon insisted for two years that I was at fault, until I finally pursued it with the company's CEO and proved otherwise.

And trust that there is far more to what its employees said and did that anyone with a mind for fairness, decency, honesty, integrity, etc., would find appalling.

And in the end, I'm in my situation because of it.

I can also understand caution in posting about your problem.

I have never used a 600 f4 IS but owned the 7D2 and 500 f4 IS.
I was satisfied with AF tracking with various combinations, with Canon 1.4TC and Sigma 2XTC.

Is the gear under your signature current? Does the 600 work OK on the other bodies and are you satisfied with your other lenses AF tracking?

I'd appreciate continuing to hear from anyone who can provide first hand observations.

The reason I'm posting again though is that it occurred to me to call B&H (multiple times, as I always do when I call there, to get multiple opinions), just for its reps' expertise. All told me that they've never heard of nor experienced this, and that they flatly do not believe there is any truth to it.

Thanks, Dave. Your experience supports my position.

Brett - I've lived both in Canada and the US but for this issue I was north of the border. At the time there were two service centres I believe (now only one). Before going further I'll tell you that this was the one and only bad service issue I had with Canon and it was a doozy. At the end of the day the problem was more with the person that I was dealing with than anything else. I had oil splatter on my sensor and after sending the unit for service several times and receiving it back with the exact same spots I sent it in again. I received a call from a representative who stated that they weren't going to clean the sensor again because they have this machine they use to look at the sensor on a pixel-level and the tech declared it was clean. I had left a card in the camera with pictures I had taken that clearly showed heavy debris on the sensor starting @ f/8 on in-focus images. The rep tried every trick in the book to tell me that my camera was fine including that fact I shouldn't be shooting stopped down to f/8 because of diffraction! He gave me a choice to accept the camera as is or have the sensor replaced at a cost of 1000CAD. More so he told me that my warranty was void because I had admitted to cleaning the sensor myself even though the sensor was not damaged by my cleaning attempts (a completely false claim). He also tried to tell me that Canon never admitted that oil splatter was a problem even after I pointed it out that it was in the manual for the camera.

He was dealing with the wrong guy. I am fluent in Japanese so I sent my pictures to Canon Japan and asked them what the problem might be. The response was that my sensor needed to be cleaned with an invitation to send it in for service. Now I had Canon Japan contradicting Canon Canada. Also unluckily for the rep I had been recording these conversations with an app on my phone. I put it together in a registered letter to the head office containing a translation of my correspondence with Canon Japan, a link to the recordings with the rep and a copy of all the related service documents to the head office. I threatened that if they failed to rectify my issue within 10 business days I would have the camera repaired at my cost at a different authorized centre and pursue Canon Canada for the cost of the repair. I received a call 3 or 4 business days later inviting me to return the camera to the service centre. It was returned to me 48 hours after it was received with a record stating it had been given a cleaning and inspection. No parts replaced. Try as I might I could not find a single spot on that sensor. I later found out that his description of the test to look for sensor spots was accurate. They look at this electronically but never inspect an actual photo to determine if the sensor is clean which I liken to looking at an MTF chart to see how a lens performs without trying it.

So all of this said it is important to realize that Canon runs controlled tests under lab conditions that apparently verify whether or not a component is working within specifications. We don't know what these tests are, what the tolerances may be or if they reflect real world use in all cases. In my case there was definitely a disconnect between the lab and the real world. My best advice to you would be to determine that your results are anomalous which would probably be best achieved if you could compare with another 600 f/4. Be extremely vigilant about documenting your dealings wth Canon. If you are dealing with a specific rep request to deal with someone else. My case certainly proved that it is possible to fall on a rep who might not do as good a job as the next guy in going to bat for you or protecting your interests. Ask if a technician can reproduce your tests and send you the pictures. I bet they haven't shot with it outside the lab.

Judo--I'm extremely tempted to disclose my circumstances (for among other reasons to help others avoid what I've had happen to me) but I don't want to make the details public until/unless Canon fails to help me. Trust several of them are (beyond ludicrous and) extremely damning. And I keep good records.

Based upon my discussions with multiple employees, nothing you wrote about your experience surprises me. I'm just glad you were successful, and I appreciate your sharing it. It's supportive and every little bit helps.

As a previous owner of the 600 F4 L IS Mk1 I found that it performed very well on a variety of cameras. A friend of mine now owns it and it still performs very well. Certainly the Mk2 version is a little better (and lighter!) but nevertheless the Mk1 is still good.

Although I do have a 7D2 I have never used it on this lens, however my (ex) lens working rather well on my friend's 1DX and I have used it on the EOS 33V, EOS 3, EOS IX7, 5D, 20D, 1D4 and 1DX with excellent results with no calibration. I would be VERY surprised if it didn't work well on my 7D2 - but I haven't tried it!

A final thought, for which I will I will be called a Heretic, but have you turned IS off? I have owned/tested and use a few SuperTeles and they are all useless (or near useless) on moving subjects with IS on. Turning IS off gave me far more of an improvement in IQ than spending 4+K on a camera (or more on lenses) and it is free. AF acquisition is noticeably faster and tracking is greatly improved - try IS off , I think you may be happy unless there is a fault with your camera/lens.

Just my thoughts/experiences.

Hey John.

Thanks for that. So far everyone asked fully discounts Canon's claim.

I've tried both IS settings as well as no IS. But I like the heretic line, it's amazing how emphatically people have assured me of opposing shooting mandates...

Brett

I don't have the 600 F4 IS, but I do have the 400 2.8 IS (Same age). I have used it with the 7DII (two different ones) with exceptional results. My opinion, is that there is something wrong with the lens, they don't know what it is or how to fix it. So instead of saying that, they say "its the best its gonna do". But thats my own opinion.

Have you thought about sending the combo to a third party? or 2 of them. Just for several opinions.

Hey L.

At this point, for reasons you'd understand if you knew the whole story, my major concern is getting Canon to acknowledge and correct the situation.

Though I know it doesn't necessarily make sense without context, it's Canon's fault not only that I own the lens but also that I've not been able to address the problem sooner--and that sooner would have included when it was still serviceable, which it now is not.

I appreciate your telling me about your 400. It all helps, and every person's shared experience makes me more confident in my view of the situation.
Brett

Brett, I see you’re in NJ. Are they giving you problems at the NJ service center? I know this means nothing, but I walked in with my T3i years ago. It actually had rough threads from the factory where you install the tripod mount. The guy just took it and send well send it to your home when it’s done. They didn’t even ask me for a receipt. I think a lot of this is talking to the right person. (I must add that the camera was several years old at the point I went there and never used the tripod mount before that point in time. It was by chance that I found that inconsistency)