Soccer photos...need suggestions for "soft" images

Hello to all,

It's been a while since I have posted....but I do love the information available on this forum.

I am hoping to get suggestions on these images. These are images taken of my grandson playing soccer. The time of day is around 5 PM. The photos were taken with my 5D Mark IV and my Canon 70-200 2.8 II. I use single point auto focus, back button focus. The camera on these shots was in Av mode....3.5 f-stop. I adjust the ISO to always keep the shutter speed above 1/800. I have used Canon Digital Professional 4 to check my focus point. The focus point on these images is on the chest of number 12. I use a monopod in a standing position to try to help keep the camera stable. I do tend to crop images...sometimes heavy cropping. I was standing on the sideline at mid-field when these were taken and the players are running towards me. Having said all of that I hope to get sharper images. I love this lens and I know it is capable of great images. Also I suspect camera movement is causing the soft images. I do use Lightroom for post processing but lately I have just been cropping the JPEG images right out of lightroom (not other adjusting) vs using RAW files and adjusting color, sharpness, etc.

The last image is not cropped....the first two are cropped. All three of these images were shot with SS 1/800, 3.5 f-stop, ISO 320

I would love to hear any suggestions.

I have not posted images in a very long time. I hope these file sizes are OK....if not just let me know.

Thank you in advance.

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …562047968/in/ph​otostream/

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …454357894/in/ph​otostream/

7L2A4112

bestill4me wrote in post #18816596
Hello to all,

It's been a while since I have posted....but I do love the information available on this forum.

I am hoping to get suggestions on these images. These are images taken of my grandson playing soccer. The time of day is around 5 PM. The photos were taken with my 5D Mark IV and my Canon 70-200 2.8 II. I use single point auto focus, back button focus. The camera on these shots was in Av mode....3.5 f-stop. I adjust the ISO to always keep the shutter speed above 1/800. I have used Canon Digital Professional 4 to check my focus point. The focus point on these images is on the chest of number 12. I use a monopod in a standing position to try to help keep the camera stable. I do tend to crop images...sometimes heavy cropping. I was standing on the sideline at mid-field when these were taken and the players are running towards me. Having said all of that I hope to get sharper images. I love this lens and I know it is capable of great images. Also I suspect camera movement is causing the soft images. I do use Lightroom for post processing but lately I have just been cropping the JPEG images right out of lightroom (not other adjusting) vs using RAW files and adjusting color, sharpness, etc.

The last image is not cropped....the first two are cropped. All three of these images were shot with SS 1/800, 3.5 f-stop, ISO 320

I would love to hear any suggestions.

I have not posted images in a very long time. I hope these file sizes are OK....if not just let me know.

Thank you in advance.

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …562047968/in/ph​otostream/ on Flickr

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …454357894/in/ph​otostream/
7L2A4112 by bbqdude59 on Flickr

Well if you are having to crop away 70% of the pixels I would suggest either waiting until the action gets closer to you so that it fills the frame or use a longer lens. I would also suggest that you use a faster shutter speed as you seem to have plenty of available light to do so. The black shirts of the players may also be contributing to focusing issues that you have.

Always go aggressive with shutter speeds on sports, even if you venture into undesirable ISO ranges. Noise can be combated, motion cannot. The 5D4 is more than capable at many ISO stops above 320.

That is my guideline #1 for sports shooters.

However it appears with your images, there might be more afoot than just motion blur. Even if you had moved to 1/1600 at ISO 640, I think your lens/body is either front focusing, or you may want to go though your AI Servo AF settings (the AF cases). Chances are one of these two things are at work with your gear.

As to cropping, I wouldn't worry about too much, the 5D4 has wonderful resolution and detail to allow you to crop tightly at lower ISOs.

Thank you John!!!

Thank you....I am currently using AF Case number 1.....maybe I will try 4 or 5. I have read about "Micro" focus adjusting but have hesitated to mess with it.

bestill4me wrote in post #18816670
Thank you....I am currently using AF Case number 1.....maybe I will try 4 or 5. I have read about "Micro" focus adjusting but have hesitated to mess with it.

The cases are just placeholders, you can stay with case 1 and just move the sliders around. It will always keep the "factory settings" as gray markers. No need to flip between them unless you want to set up a few different AF scenarios. It is much like custom picture style slots.

You can't hurt the camera with micro adjustments, all you are doing is telling the camera to calculate a lens position, then send that + your adjustment value. They are just profiles per lens like AF cases or picture styles.

When you shoot that lens again, go the lens adjustment, go to the long end, and put in about +7 and test. If too much take some away, if grass is still in focus in front of the players add more.

It is buried in TeamSpeed's post, but just to make sure, you are using AI Servo and not one shot, correct?

The first photo in the sequence is sharp enough to beg the question why the second is as well unless you're not getting it to track correctly.

Since you're cropping, it's worth straightening your horizons as well.

Problem is looking at flicker, some of the shots you posted there are spot on, while others (7L2A4112) I can't find anything in focus. First image you posted is in focus on number 12. Nice sharp area of turf beneath them. Usually you can look at the turf to see where the actual focus was, but it is alluding me on the middle shot. If anything it looks like focus was a smidge ahead of the ball... but even then.... I'm not sold on it. And at 1/800 you should have had enough shutter speed to freeze something. It's not a micro adjustment because others in the sequence are spot on, so it can find focus. I would almost have to guess because the whole frame is out of focus is that it was camera shake as you panned to capture the image. Was IS on? Was it in mode 2 or 1 if on?

Like TeamSpeed said, you have plenty of headroom to go higher in ISO. 800 is a very safe space with that camera. (Even 1000 t0 1600 is really safe) The images also look a little flat, so exposing a 1/3 to 1/2 stop at least higher would help get some definition back into the jerseys. If you are not happy with the first and third shot, have you already added some sharpening to them?

Middle shot is goofy... wish I had a magic bullet solution for you. Get that ISO and shutter speed up there and see if that solves the issue.

EDIT

Soccer at this age just isn't that fast... so you shouldn't need to use AI Servo... though it never hurts.

How are you telling the camera to acquire the image - half press of the shutter or back button focus? That camera and lens combo should be fast enough to deal with either style, but it would help diagnose what is going on.

Here is a quick edit to show how just a bit of post processing can help with the image too, beyond the in-camera technicalities.

Thank you all for your insights. TeamSpeed thank so much for the suggestions and the post processing you did.....it does look much better. Did you do that with Lightroom sharpening slider? What other adjustments did you make?

This has been a real education. I will do some testing with the auto focus cases and see the results. I will also take a look at micro focus. I have been a little to timid to make any changes in these.

Just for additional details....I do shoot in Al Servo when shooting sports. Also I use back button focus all the time. I have not used Image Stabilization on the lens. Maybe I should give it a try. My understanding has been that IS is generally used for low light, slow shutter speed, hand held shooting. Another factor I had not mentioned is that I am currently having RAW and JPEG files write to both card slots simultaneously. When my grandson is involved in a longer play I am "machine-gunning" to try to catch the action.

As I look back over more of the images from that game it does seem to me that there is a theme of soft images....so I do think something is going on....I guess it is possible that hand movement could be a factor....also it was a VERY windy day....but I do use a mono pod to help steady.

I think going forward I will attempt to get closer to the players. I will definitely try faster shutter speed and higher ISO.

I would recommend M mode, F/2.8 ISO 1600 and expose first for the sky (daytime) or grass for night time. for tracking use mode 3. On the lens mode 1.

Thanks silvex....I'll give it a try.

If you are looking for a longer lens - I LOVE my Sigma 150-600 Sport lens. I used it on a tripod with a gimbal mount and it worked great!

Dan

bestill4me wrote in post #18817060
Thank you all for your insights. TeamSpeed thank so much for the suggestions and the post processing you did.....it does look much better. Did you do that with Lightroom sharpening slider? What other adjustments did you make?

This has been a real education. I will do some testing with the auto focus cases and see the results. I will also take a look at micro focus. I have been a little to timid to make any changes in these.

Just for additional details....I do shoot in Al Servo when shooting sports. Also I use back button focus all the time. I have not used Image Stabilization on the lens. Maybe I should give it a try. My understanding has been that IS is generally used for low light, slow shutter speed, hand held shooting. Another factor I had not mentioned is that I am currently having RAW and JPEG files write to both card slots simultaneously. When my grandson is involved in a longer play I am "machine-gunning" to try to catch the action.

As I look back over more of the images from that game it does seem to me that there is a theme of soft images....so I do think something is going on....I guess it is possible that hand movement could be a factor....also it was a VERY windy day....but I do use a mono pod to help steady.

I think going forward I will attempt to get closer to the players. I will definitely try faster shutter speed and higher ISO.

At those shutter speeds, image stabilization wont help. I shoot 1/640 or 1/800 when i can, or faster on a bright day. If you think you have a focus issue, you might try testing the camera at representative distances to see whats going on. For instance, shoot a street curb to see where your focus lands.

Dan Knowlton wrote in post #18821806
If you are looking for a longer lens - I LOVE my Sigma 150-600 Sport lens. I used it on a tripod with a gimbal mount and it worked great!

Dan

I tried my 150-500 C for soccer, but didnt care for it. When the players are that far away, too often the traffic blocks the shot, and the wide end isnt wide enough when they are close by. Thats on a crop camera though.

Thank you Dan Knowlton and iowajim...I appreciate your comments!!!