Who has gone mirrorless?

One of my mirrorless cameras has 102 megapixels in a 44x33 sensor, is wether sealed quite well and has 5 stops of IBIS. Also it shoots 16bit and has 100% PDAF coverage, along with a host of other goodies that mirrorless cameras come with these days including a 3.2-inch 2.36-million-dot tilting touchscreen LCD & an EVF with 5.76 million dots OLED, 100% coverage and a magnification of 0.86x (huge).

Very easy to go out and shoot with that camera let me tell you.

That new Fuji looks like an awesome camera, $10K for 100mp body seems like a bargain compared to what a digital back used to cost.

I have a Canon EOS R mirrorless camera I sold my Canon 5d mark III and I love my EOS R camera and very nice and easy to use camera.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18895328
One of my mirrorless cameras has 102 megapixels in a 44x33 sensor, is wether sealed quite well and has 5 stops of IBIS. Also it shoots 16bit and has 100% PDAF coverage, along with a host of other goodies that mirrorless cameras come with these days including a 3.2-inch 2.36-million-dot tilting touchscreen LCD & an EVF with 5.76 million dots OLED, 100% coverage and a magnification of 0.86x (huge).

Very easy to go out and shoot with that camera let me tell you.

When did you buy a GFX100s ?

This is where camera hardware is insane now.

Indeed megapixels is not everything. The average shooter really doesn't need 102 MP let alone Sony's new A7r4's 61MP.

Kim trust me...I've been very intrigued by the GFX100S. I could easily afford one if I let all of my Canon gear go for hobbyist usage. Reality strikes me with the idea of having a more realistic system sticking with a 35mm sensor. More available glass with many 3rd party manufacturers with a huge selection of fast glass. I'm still waiting to test out an A7r4 with my Sigma 105 f/1.4!!

I've been analyzing severe cropped images of the GFX and it's impressive. However a huge percentage of hobbyists and even semi pro shooters do not need that many pixels. The average size prints cannot take advantage of such high MP either for your average client.

If you're a landscape shooter or creating advertisement ads the GFX is a cheap camera with incredible capabilities. This is where it will be a big hit.

In my case I'd rather have more FF lenses so I can have a large variety of focal lengths with shallow dof. Fuji still has to ramp up on faster glass in the large format/mini medium format GFX. Laws of physics will force you to carry heavy glass. I wonder how the Sigma 35 f/1.2 will perform????

The quality of the pixels can be a discussion but for many IG or FB posters to Pro's shooting average size prints a client cannot tell. This is where it all depends on what you shoot and what your client demands. If you're a hardcore landscape shooter I think the GFX can be very cool!!

I cannot wait any longer for Canon FF mirrorless so I've ramped up my Sony gear. I do have the funds for buying a new A7R4. My struggle with that is I just don't need 61MP as it's a "nice to have". It'd be more useful if a Sony A9mk2 came out with 30MP.

This is where Mirrored bodies are really left alone at home. All these companies are ramping up in the fresh line of mirrorless.

Hobbyest arent buying 10k dollar medium format cameras. And Semi pros know what they need and want.
The a7r4 cropped will still have more mp than my 6d. We have known the r series is high mp. So its understandable that sony upped the game in this area.
Like you i agree that these cameras are capable of producing amazingly detailed pictures

I had to give up motorcycling a couple of years ago, due to arthritis, but it was great while it lasted. I tended to hang on to my bikes - mostly grunty sports tourers or 'naked' bikes (why change gear if you don't have to?) but many bikers constantly changed their bikes for the latest offerings because the paper stats told them to. 140hp is way better than 130hp, you see. And the new model has a shift light and a bigger revcounter! Plus of course ya gotta have at least 1000cc and gold anodised USD forks if you're a 'real' biker. Bragging rights can be expensive, but priceless on Sundays when you meet up with the guys.

Then some guy on a ten-year-old 600cc would leave them for dust. Turns out it wasn't the bike at all ...

If you ever go to a motorcycle track day, look out for the guy in the fast group, among all the Ducatis and carbon fibre-draped race replicas, on board a ratty-looking bike with gaffa tape holding on the unpainted, cheapo bodywork. He'll be good to watch, believe me.

AlanU wrote in post #18895528
When did you buy a GFX100s ?

This is where camera hardware is insane now.

Indeed megapixels is not everything. The average shooter really doesn't need 102 MP let alone Sony's new A7r4's 61MP.

Kim trust me...I've been very intrigued by the GFX100S. I could easily afford one if I let all of my Canon gear go for hobbyist usage. Reality strikes me with the idea of having a more realistic system sticking with a 35mm sensor. More available glass with many 3rd party manufacturers with a huge selection of fast glass. I'm still waiting to test out an A7r4 with my Sigma 105 f/1.4!!

I've been analyzing severe cropped images of the GFX and it's impressive. However a huge percentage of hobbyists and even semi pro shooters do not need that many pixels. The average size prints cannot take advantage of such high MP either for your average client.

If you're a landscape shooter or creating advertisement ads the GFX is a cheap camera with incredible capabilities. This is where it will be a big hit.

In my case I'd rather have more FF lenses so I can have a large variety of focal lengths with shallow dof. Fuji still has to ramp up on faster glass in the large format/mini medium format GFX. Laws of physics will force you to carry heavy glass. I wonder how the Sigma 35 f/1.2 will perform????

The quality of the pixels can be a discussion but for many IG or FB posters to Pro's shooting average size prints a client cannot tell. This is where it all depends on what you shoot and what your client demands. If you're a hardcore landscape shooter I think the GFX can be very cool!!

I cannot wait any longer for Canon FF mirrorless so I've ramped up my Sony gear. I do have the funds for buying a new A7R4. My struggle with that is I just don't need 61MP as it's a "nice to have". It'd be more useful if a Sony A9mk2 came out with 30MP.

This is where Mirrored bodies are really left alone at home. All these companies are ramping up in the fresh line of mirrorless.

The GFX100s has a 1:1 print resolution of 40x30 inches @300DPI. Don't know what size your average client is printing to, mine range from a couple of meters up to 5x15 meters so having a high megapixel camera is nice for those. As for lenses Fuji have 9 available to date for the GFX, ranging from 23mm to 250mm and a 1.4 teleconverter to give even more push on the longer ones. So all the ranges are well covered, except for very ultra wide & all the lenses are very well matched for the 102mp sensor. How many 50mm lenses do you need or 35mm or whatever, really something wide something normal & something tight is all anyone needs. Nice to have a choice usually because you think one manufacturer makes a lens that's better (optically, functionally or cost) than another but I'm very happy with Fuji's lenses they are really high quality.

Faster Glass? You do know that on a half body shot even at f/2.8 on the 63mm if the eyes are in focus the nose is not, then take the 110/2 into account, tiny focus field @f/2. And anyway someone who is shooting with a 10K camera is probably not unfamiliar with how to light a scene. If it's not for you all good but it the best camera I've shot with so far, true 16bit 102mp raw files with 100% PDAF in a light weather sealed body with good control layout and IBIS, also shoots 4K30 using all 12K of the sensor (no crop). 4K30 10bit 4:2:2 at 400mbs with h.265 with out a crop using the full sensor of a medium format camera. And here is Canon cropping the life out of their mirrorless to get the 4K out (in 8bit) in 2019... I was not surprised.

^^^

Drool...

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18895657
The GFX100s has a 1:1 print resolution of 40x30 inches @300DPI. Don't know what size your average client is printing to, mine range from a couple of meters up to 5x15 meters so having a high megapixel camera is nice for those. As for lenses Fuji have 9 available to date for the GFX, ranging from 23mm to 250mm and a 1.4 teleconverter to give even more push on the longer ones. So all the ranges are well covered, except for very ultra wide & all the lenses are very well matched for the 102mp sensor. How many 50mm lenses do you need or 35mm or whatever, really something wide something normal & something tight is all anyone needs. Nice to have a choice usually because you think one manufacturer makes a lens that's better (optically, functionally or cost) than another but I'm very happy with Fuji's lenses they are really high quality.

Faster Glass? You do know that on a half body shot even at f/2.8 on the 63mm if the eyes are in focus the nose is not, then take the 110/2 into account, tiny focus field @f/2. And anyway someone who is shooting with a 10K camera is probably not unfamiliar with how to light a scene. If it's not for you all good but it the best camera I've shot with so far, true 16bit 102mp raw files with 100% PDAF in a light weather sealed body with good control layout and IBIS, also shoots 4K30 using all 12K of the sensor (no crop). 4K30 10bit 4:2:2 at 400mbs with h.265 with out a crop using the full sensor of a medium format camera. And here is Canon cropping the life out of their mirrorless to get the 4K out (in 8bit) in 2019... I was not surprised.

Kim, there are choices in hardware so we are even more fortunate this day and age. You lost me on video as I have no interest in it.

In your case if your employer provides you a gfx100 that is a great budget mini medium format camera for your applications. I would assume less than 10% on POTN prints as large as you. Definitely not a wedding photogs tool of choice having 102MP.

The gfx lenses are fortunately quite affordable even for semi deep pocket hobbyists.
I sure wish there was a means to reduce raw file sizes in camera regather than just “compressed”

So far the photos you’ve posted with the GFX100s show no massive difference in iq over a much cheaper gfx50. Let your Fuji aps-c do the street photography fun stuff..... I do see you pixel peeping and heavy cropping to display the power of 102 MP The obvious noticeable analysis people observe is dof with larger sensors. This is easily obtainable by fast glass. This is where many old blood mirrorless users preached "small form factor and get rid of those dinosaur mirrored bodies." Now many of them are biting their tongues as physics cannot be manipulated and big glass is required for higher end IQ if you want fast glass for shallow DOF. This is why I do not miss my bulky $$ Fuji 50-140mm f/2.8 (f/4 dof on FF) as I get much better image quality / more dof control from my Gmaster 70-200 f/2.8 or Canon 70-200 f/2.8IS mk2. The slight extra added weight from my FF glass is greatly appreciated and beneficial.

As far as GFX100 is concerned we are not discussing pixel peeping as this is just a game we all played as newbies but in reality "most" photographer's clients only skim the surface in viewing an image. This has nothing to do with drinking GFX100 Kool-Aid or fanboyism. Basically if we need the MP you buy the body that will deliver it. Your employer with all of the Sony gear for vid work would probably appreciate the A7r4 61MP for any billboard or large scale print work. More feasible for business planning as he has Sony glass and no additional lenses to buy for business bottom line. If it's about get'n it done the A7r4 is a wiser choice for a business plan providing MP required for print and delivering. A pair of A7r4 (for advisable redundancy for business) and existing Sony glass is a wise choice vs 1 Fujij GFX100S and extra glass required to fit the business needs. But of course it's not my money or business decision.


Lots of "new blood" mirrorless users are less idealistic and realize big glass on smallish mirrorless bodies is where max IQ is obtained. The early adopters preached and boasted how small their system is. Well in Sony's world both is achievable in small f/2 to f/2.8 primes to big Gmaster zooms or Pro level Gmaster primes. Choose your poison of small or big.

Now people are either loving or scrutinizing the amazing A7R4 debut with 61MP sensor that does not require any additional lenses for current sony users. Even Fuji rumours is discussing the capabilities of the Sony 61MP sensor. Not bad for a full frame but I will say the 102MP Sony sensor in the Fuji body is obviously good too due to Sony tech.

Nikon and Canon really just need to step up in their mirrorless bodies. Right now I'm investing in Sony because Canon has let many down in their slow momentum in producing competitive mirrorless FF bodies. If there is a need for high MP in my case the A7R3 would be more than enough but if I wanted eye AF tracking in 4k vid I'd consider the new A7R4.

As of late Fuji aps-c has nothing to offer me. For the UWA in the 16-35mm range it doesn't even have a f/2.8 version of the 10-24mm. I'm looking into buying the GMaster 24mm f/1.4. My current Fuji 16mm f/1.4 has not remotely matched my Sigma 24 f/1.4 art with my Sony A73. I know if I eventually jump into the Canon EOS R (mk2 etc) with amazing RF glass the IQ will not disappoint me regardless of challenging light. This is where I can use my current EF glass L glass as native on a new RF mount system!

Dude, I own the company, not an employee!


You might think there is no difference but I'll let all the other commenters do the taking on that one, except for the post where I mentioned that the resolution is, of course, amazing with 102 mp on tap, but all the other things that Fuji have put into the camera add up to make this GFX a great experience to shoot with. That should really be the takeaway with this camera, the juicy sensor is just a (really nice) bonus.

As far as IQ differences goes there is not that much save the extra colour/resolution in the 102mp sensor and as I've said before the 50r is a good way to dip your toe into the water of shooting digital medium format. You can even adapt some of the 135mm lenses with good results.

I'm not one for pixel peeping in general images but part of my work involves making sure the images will hold up full scale so I'm more often in a 300% checking things out before I let it go to the client. Still, quite amusing to zoom into an image by 400% and see a sharp detailed result.

Also no need for high megapixel imagery for a billboard as the viewing distance if so far and they are printed at a very low resolution, something like 15dpi I think. Large scale commercial photography that get put into high street shops and hotels or airports do however get printed at higher resolution, I shoot a fair amount of that each year, so having more resolution helps there for sure. Oh and we have no Sony glass as they don't make any decent lenses for video work & the mount is an E-mount anyway. But I'm sure you are well versed in all of the different video mounts Alan...

Anyway is the new A7r4 capable or outputting 4:2:2? or 10bit? or 4k/60? or HLG? No? Really, but Sony said it was 'professional video'...

But yea, as you say, it's not your business or money because if it was you might want to figure out these things before you comment on what's best for the use case. Eh?


Anyone else find it really interesting that some people refer to the same sensor that's fitted in the Pentax 645d as well as the Hasselblad H6D as 'mini medium format' suddenly when referencing Fuji's camera & never before thought about it when mentioning the others who use the same size. Gota love that.

Canonuser123 wrote in post #18895295
Depending on what you like to shoot gear can make a big difference, modern technology does improve the quality of motorsports photography. Now would Edward Weston be able to take a better photo of a toilet if he had a Sony A7RIV? Who knows, I know I don’t care. I do know a Sony is a lot more portable than an 8” x 10” view camera. Not everything is about art, art is very subjective and just because you like something doesn’t mean everyone does.

If technological advancements would have no impact on the quality of your work, congratulations you will not need to upgrade, for those of us that can benefit from it, we will gladly adopt what we thank will help.

Not sure the image would be better... but it could be at 240 mpx... imagine the detail..... ; )

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18895818
Dude, I own the company, not an employee!


You might think there is no difference but I'll let all the other commenters do the taking on that one, except for the post where I mentioned that the resolution is, of course, amazing with 102 mp on tap, but all the other things that Fuji have put into the camera add up to make this GFX a great experience to shoot with. That should really be the takeaway with this camera, the juicy sensor is just a (really nice) bonus.

As far as IQ differences goes there is not that much save the extra colour/resolution in the 102mp sensor and as I've said before the 50r is a good way to dip your toe into the water of shooting digital medium format. You can even adapt some of the 135mm lenses with good results.

I'm not one for pixel peeping in general images but part of my work involves making sure the images will hold up full scale so I'm more often in a 300% checking things out before I let it go to the client. Still, quite amusing to zoom into an image by 400% and see a sharp detailed result.

Also no need for high megapixel imagery for a billboard as the viewing distance if so far and they are printed at a very low resolution, something like 15dpi I think. Large scale commercial photography that get put into high street shops and hotels or airports do however get printed at higher resolution, I shoot a fair amount of that each year, so having more resolution helps there for sure. Oh and we have no Sony glass as they don't make any decent lenses for video work & the mount is an E-mount anyway. But I'm sure you are well versed in all of the different video mounts Alan...

Anyway is the new A7r4 capable or outputting 4:2:2? or 10bit? or 4k/60? or HLG? No? Really, but Sony said it was 'professional video'...

But yea, as you say, it's not your business or money because if it was you might want to figure out these things before you comment on what's best for the use case. Eh?


Anyone else find it really interesting that some people refer to the same sensor that's fitted in the Pentax 645d as well as the Hasselblad H6D as 'mini medium format' suddenly when referencing Fuji's camera & never before thought about it when mentioning the others who use the same size. Gota love that.

I've been calling out mini medium format since the beginning

it's interesting because if you prefer the squarish look, it's not really that mini, and the difference can be big, but if you prefer wider, then it is mini indeed. I tend to gravitate more squarish for human subjects, wider for landscapes.

I'm a little underwhelmed with the R4, it feels like half a typical body release from sony, and they should have waited a year or two for a more meaningful update. No doubt it looks to be a fantastic camera, but it's not that big of an update depending at what you're looking at. On a pixel level, it's huge, everything else.... seems like all it is, is a new sensor, and for body refinements, the A7R5 will be the way to go. Guessing based on R2-> R3, rehashed the sensor, but big moves on the body + AF, absolutely huge.

they roll out the sensor first, then roll out usability second, so it'll be a while before I update, sorry for the rant.

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18895818
Dude, I own the company, not an employee!


You might think there is no difference but I'll let all the other commenters do the taking on that one, except for the post where I mentioned that the resolution is, of course, amazing with 102 mp on tap, but all the other things that Fuji have put into the camera add up to make this GFX a great experience to shoot with. That should really be the takeaway with this camera, the juicy sensor is just a (really nice) bonus.

As far as IQ differences goes there is not that much save the extra colour/resolution in the 102mp sensor and as I've said before the 50r is a good way to dip your toe into the water of shooting digital medium format. You can even adapt some of the 135mm lenses with good results.

I'm not one for pixel peeping in general images but part of my work involves making sure the images will hold up full scale so I'm more often in a 300% checking things out before I let it go to the client. Still, quite amusing to zoom into an image by 400% and see a sharp detailed result.

Also no need for high megapixel imagery for a billboard as the viewing distance if so far and they are printed at a very low resolution, something like 15dpi I think. Large scale commercial photography that get put into high street shops and hotels or airports do however get printed at higher resolution, I shoot a fair amount of that each year, so having more resolution helps there for sure. Oh and we have no Sony glass as they don't make any decent lenses for video work & the mount is an E-mount anyway. But I'm sure you are well versed in all of the different video mounts Alan...

Anyway is the new A7r4 capable or outputting 4:2:2? or 10bit? or 4k/60? or HLG? No? Really, but Sony said it was 'professional video'...

But yea, as you say, it's not your business or money because if it was you might want to figure out these things before you comment on what's best for the use case. Eh?


Anyone else find it really interesting that some people refer to the same sensor that's fitted in the Pentax 645d as well as the Hasselblad H6D as 'mini medium format' suddenly when referencing Fuji's camera & never before thought about it when mentioning the others who use the same size. Gota love that.

Kim, when did you buy the GFX100S?

You must be mistaken...I'd love to buy the GFX100S. What it offers just isn't worth it to me. 99.99% of the people view images on a smart phone or laptop. Of all people, you'll say there's little difference between aps-c and Full frame. Suddenly the 102MP is a massive difference??? Yes for airports, hotels but for universal general use? I presume the cheaper GFX50S would be more than enough for many hotel gigs you shoot. For portraits using an A7r3 or now 61MP A7R4 and mounting a Gmaster 135mm f/1.8 would create some dreamy high mega pixel images fraction of the cost of a GFX100S. This is of course if you indeed do not pixel peep.

I could pick up a GFX50R (aka 2x4 piece of wood) for a cheap song. Just do not appreciate the worst ergonomics in 2019 (IMO) and lens lineup for what it offers me. GFX50S is much more appealing in ergonomics but lacks the body performance of the new GFX100S.

A person looking at their Android/iPhone would not see much of a difference in images. You used a GFX100S for street photography and it's no better than a micro 4/3 user shooting with a fast prime when viewing on small smart phone. If your closely analyzing the image on a 5k screen then that's a different story. I'd say a Canon 5DSR, Nikon D850, Sony A7r3 will fair well if you talking shallow dof portraits. This is all about selection of tools as and subject matter.

In reality as for clean high iso images GFX>FF>APS-C>Micro 4/3>1 inch ccd etc.


I mentioned earlier that I'm not interested in video. Most here are not deep into videography as this is a photography forum.

For the sake of business you mentioned only a small part of your business is involved in hotel/street shop from other posts IIRC. Your business practice and bottom line would be more beneficial renting as per gig/job and incorporating rental costs. This is where 15 stop dynamic range in a much cheaper A7R4 would do equally as well eh???

Seems there's a love/hate with any high resolution camera to a degree. Many love the sweet spot of 24-30MP for file management and universal application. 102 or let alone 61MP is a bit of a niche setup IMO.

Charlie wrote in post #18895852
I've been calling out mini medium format since the beginning

it's interesting because if you prefer the squarish look, it's not really that mini, and the difference can be big, but if you prefer wider, then it is mini indeed. I tend to gravitate more squarish for human subjects, wider for landscapes.

I'm a little underwhelmed with the R4, it feels like half a typical body release from sony, and they should have waited a year or two for a more meaningful update. No doubt it looks to be a fantastic camera, but it's not that big of an update depending at what you're looking at. On a pixel level, it's huge, everything else.... seems like all it is, is a new sensor, and for body refinements, the A7R5 will be the way to go. Guessing based on R2-> R3, rehashed the sensor, but big moves on the body + AF, absolutely huge.

they roll out the sensor first, then roll out usability second, so it'll be a while before I update, sorry for the rant.

Charlie,

Since you own the R3 you may be underwhelmed. I'm on the other hand intrigued as I do not own a high res body. In reality if Sony rolls out with an A9mk2 with 30MP sensor body that would be much more logical for me. I wouldn't complain picking up a current A9 mk1 TBH.

I'm still analyzing my uses for a high MP body. 30MP is more of a sweet spot for my application.

Sounds to me like you are the well versed expert here with tons of experience in the real world delivering high end products. So I’ll leave that with you.