Accelerated market contraction for DSLRs

mat vanella wrote in post #18856976
The increased amount of Phonetographers available to stand directly in front of our DSLRs without considering others, and take shots of the sun(nothing else,just the sun in the shot) has to be a good thing right? Right??

I didn't have kids in school until well into the camera phone era. Today, people who would have never bothered to bring a camera to a school event now crowd into the front by the dozens with their phones (portrait mode, of course) high in the air blocking everyone's view. The only way to get a shot through all that now without killing people is to stand in the back with a long lens. I imagine pre-phone, there were much, much less people with cameras to compete with for space.

This week on the Art of Photography vlog on YouTube Ted shows off a book shot entirely with a cell phone. What makes a photographer a photographer is what is between his/her ears - not what they hold in their hands. Lots of people take photos, but that doesn't make them a photographer. Lots of people own expensive gear, doesn't make them a photographer either.

It's the attitude and the skill. Not the gear.

Croasdail wrote in post #18857155
This week on the Art of Photography vlog on YouTube Ted shows off a book shot entirely with a cell phone. What makes a photographer a photographer is what is between his/her ears - not what they hold in their hands. Lots of people take photos, but that doesn't make them a photographer. Lots of people own expensive gear, doesn't make them a photographer either.

It's the attitude and the skill. Not the gear.

The subject plays a large role in determining how important the gear is.

I would respectfully disagree. You can give a decent photographer any gear, and say "go get some compelling images of x", and they could do that. May not be the standard shots. May take more work. May take more creativity. But they could do it. But they would not say "I can't get any shots because I don't have blank". That is a good photographer wouldn't say that.

Nothing wrong with having the right equipment. Not at all. But please, spending $10,000 on gear doesn't give you skills. It just means you don't have to have as many skills.

Croasdail wrote in post #18857162
I would respectfully disagree. You can give a decent photographer any gear, and say "go get some compelling images of x", and they could do that. May not be the standard shots. May take more work. May take more creativity. But they could do it. But they would not say "I can't get any shots because I don't have blank". That is a good photographer wouldn't say that.

Nothing wrong with having the right equipment. Not at all. But please, spending $10,000 on gear doesn't give you skills. It just means you don't have to have as many skills.

There are times and conditions where a certain amount of gear just won't get that great shot, no matter the skill or creativity of the photographer. I can say "get a compelling picture of Johnny making a fast break in this middle school gym with this Nexus 5" and there won't be a single compelling shot from that gear from that photographer.

You did say "compelling", and despite the ability to get a decent photo, it would not be compelling in those situations with any decent photographer. The photographer and gear would be able to capture a few sequences, sure, but they would look like most other social media wallet sized images out there. There are just situations where gear does indeed make a difference. There are many, many other types of situations that fit this same category.

Now if I said "go get a compelling shot of the garden", sure different conditions and different situation entirely.

mike_d wrote in post #18856965
Do any of these kids play sports? If I didn't already have a DSLR, I'd probably have gotten one just for that. 28mm isn't too useful on a soccer field.

Yes, one family has a rising star swimmer (now 13 yr), and also a hockey player whose team won its league and then went on to be the championship team in its segment of the state...they were honored by the Colorado Avalanche by being introduced at one of the final games before the Cup playoffs started! No dSLR, nothing but a smartphone.

Another family has a son who plays both basketball and lacrosse. No big distinctions like the above family yet. Again, so dSLR, nothing but a smartphone.

OK, take your cellphone to the race track and get some good action shots from the track. There are some Bald eagles way up in that tree, try and get a nice close up shot of one. Lots of times gear really matters.

Wilt wrote in post #18857230
Yes, one family has a rising star swimmer (now 13 yr), and also a hockey player whose team won its league and then went on to be the championship team in its segment of the state...they were honored by the Colorado Avalanche by being introduced at one of the final games before the Cup playoffs started! No dSLR, nothing but a smartphone.

Another family has a son who plays both basketball and lacrosse. No big distinctions like the above family yet. Again, so dSLR, nothing but a smartphone.

Hopefully at least there's someone associated with the team taking and sharing pics.

Canonuser123 wrote in post #18857263
OK, take your cellphone to the race track and get some good action shots from the track. There are some Bald eagles way up in that tree, try and get a nice close up shot of one. Lots of times gear really matters.

I believe Scott Bourne once said something like, "If you want to be a wild life photographer, first go to dental school. You'll need the money to afford the glass necessary."

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18857196
There are times and conditions where a certain amount of gear just won't get that great shot, no matter the skill or creativity of the photographer. I can say "get a compelling picture of Johnny making a fast break in this middle school gym with this Nexus 5" and there won't be a single compelling shot from that gear from that photographer.

You did say "compelling", and despite the ability to get a decent photo, it would not be compelling in those situations with any decent photographer. The photographer and gear would be able to capture a few sequences, sure, but they would look like most other social media wallet sized images out there. There are just situations where gear does indeed make a difference. There are many, many other types of situations that fit this same category.

Now if I said "go get a compelling shot of the garden", sure different conditions and different situation entirely.

So that was a very specific request, Johnny & Fast break, middle of the gym. Now honestly I have never had such a request. I may have had "get a compelling shot of Johnny at his game". That is a completely different request. But mid-court? Fast Break? I'm not even sure you can guarantee Johnny will be getting a fast break at mid court - or if at all. Games just aren't that scripted. For some athletes it more likely.... but still. But could you get a compelling shot of Johnny at the games - absolutely. It may be intensity on the bench. Or coach talking him up - getting his head into the game. It could be disappointment after a blown play. It could be a free thrown shot under the basket. It could even be a lay up. It could be celebration after the game, or dejection after a loss. Honestly a fast break mid court could happen center court, or from either side.... so even that shot isn't that impossible.

The point is a pro or a good photographer will look whats at their disposal, asses the situation, then find a way to get a shot that people will want to look at. And a kid running down the court with a ball just isn't that compelling. It's something that happens hundreds of times, that everyone has seen many many times before, and would elicit perhaps a short pause, but most would just swipe, scroll, to turn the page (unless its their son, or friend). But I get the scenario you are trying to portray.

But as a rising sports photographer, remember, there is a lot more to sports than peak action. Particularly in basketball not much hasn't been shot before. It's the human interest shots that stand out. The distraught player. The elation of a victory. Or the reaction to an amazing shot. For example, try to get a great shot of a half court shot at the buzzer. Pretty hard to have that be exciting unless you can frame it and time it perfect. But the reaction of bench and coach... priceless.

But I get what you say. Yes, I have a $12,000 lens on order for a reason. It will matter. But I'll be honest (and almost cocky sounding), it wouldn't matter as much to a lot of people because they won't pay attention to the background, they won't get low enough.... etc. If you get what I mean.

Croasdail wrote in post #18857299
So that was a very specific request, Johnny & Fast break, middle of the gym. Now honestly I have never had such a request. I may have had "get a compelling shot of Johnny at his game". That is a completely different request. But mid-court? Fast Break? I'm not even sure you can guarantee Johnny will be getting a fast break at mid court - or if at all. Games just aren't that scripted. For some athletes it more likely.... but still. But could you get a compelling shot of Johnny at the games - absolutely. It may be intensity on the bench. Or coach talking him up - getting his head into the game. It could be disappointment after a blown play. It could be a free thrown shot under the basket. It could even be a lay up. It could be celebration after the game, or dejection after a loss. Honestly a fast break mid court could happen center court, or from either side.... so even that shot isn't that impossible.

The point is a pro or a good photographer will look whats at their disposal, asses the situation, then find a way to get a shot that people will want to look at. And a kid running down the court with a ball just isn't that compelling. It's something that happens hundreds of times, that everyone has seen many many times before, and would elicit perhaps a short pause, but most would just swipe, scroll, to turn the page (unless its their son, or friend). But I get the scenario you are trying to portray.

But as a rising sports photographer, remember, there is a lot more to sports than peak action. Particularly in basketball not much hasn't been shot before. It's the human interest shots that stand out. The distraught player. The elation of a victory. Or the reaction to an amazing shot. For example, try to get a great shot of a half court shot at the buzzer. Pretty hard to have that be exciting unless you can frame it and time it perfect. But the reaction of bench and coach... priceless.

If you were shooting a game with a phone, you'd have to hope one of those moments happens to happen right in front of you to have any chance of capturing it.

Croasdail wrote in post #18857299
So that was a very specific request, Johnny & Fast break, middle of the gym. Now honestly I have never had such a request. I may have had "get a compelling shot of Johnny at his game". That is a completely different request. But mid-court? Fast Break? I'm not even sure you can guarantee Johnny will be getting a fast break at mid court - or if at all. Games just aren't that scripted. For some athletes it more likely.... but still. But could you get a compelling shot of Johnny at the games - absolutely. It may be intensity on the bench. Or coach talking him up - getting his head into the game. It could be disappointment after a blown play. It could be a free thrown shot under the basket. It could even be a lay up. It could be celebration after the game, or dejection after a loss. Honestly a fast break mid court could happen center court, or from either side.... so even that shot isn't that impossible.

The point is a pro or a good photographer will look whats at their disposal, asses the situation, then find a way to get a shot that people will want to look at. And a kid running down the court with a ball just isn't that compelling. It's something that happens hundreds of times, that everyone has seen many many times before, and would elicit perhaps a short pause, but most would just swipe, scroll, to turn the page (unless its their son, or friend). But I get the scenario you are trying to portray.

But as a rising sports photographer, remember, there is a lot more to sports than peak action. Particularly in basketball not much hasn't been shot before. It's the human interest shots that stand out. The distraught player. The elation of a victory. Or the reaction to an amazing shot. For example, try to get a great shot of a half court shot at the buzzer. Pretty hard to have that be exciting unless you can frame it and time it perfect. But the reaction of bench and coach... priceless.

But I get what you say. Yes, I have a $12,000 lens on order for a reason. It will matter. But I'll be honest (and almost cocky sounding), it wouldn't matter as much to a lot of people because they won't pay attention to the background, they won't get low enough.... etc. If you get what I mean.

I guess I missed where somebody said they needed a $12K lens to take good photos, because I certainly never said that. A good ILC camera with good high ISO and a reasonably fast zoom lens can knock off a majority of situations over a phone or a small point and shoot. Every level of photography will require more investment into equipment, just like EVERY other endeavor, be it drag racing, street racing, carpentry, or any other hobby or career. A craftsman won't blame their tools, but they certainly know where they are lacking in equipment and will likely fix that issue in due time.

mike_d wrote in post #18857287
I believe Scott Bourne once said something like, "If you want to be a wild life photographer, first go to dental school. You'll need the money to afford the glass necessary."

Not anymore, the 150-600mm lenses are extremely good deals now.

Didn't say anyone had to buy a Sony 400 f2.8..... I am doing that. But you do for your example need a fast 70-200. F4 probably still isn't going to cut it in high school gyms. To get the shot you are talking about.... $3,500 minimum investment? And that still isn't going to mean the person is going to get that shot. You do masterful work with NR, a lot better than even many here. That is your skill.... compensating for hardware that still wasn't fast enough to get the shot. You are having to fix what the camera didn't do. A 1DX that doesn't need that help cost another $4,000. My point is your skill was able to pull up images. And even then, a 1 DX can't anticipate that shot - you are the one being in the right location, at the right time, with the right settings, reading the play and understanding when to shoot.

And heres the deal, I bet if I were to send you there with just a 7D and an 85 F1.8, you would be able to figure out how to come back with a lot of the shots you need/want. If you were told to go get an image of Johnny for publication, you would. You know the game well enough, and the gear well enough to know where to position yourself for the shot.

But a lot of others, even with a 1DX, and a great lens, taking all technical limitations away, still wouldn't come back with compelling images.

You have to do that even with the best gear. The trick is knowing where to be. And the gear only helps mitigate that some....

Here is an example

https://www.si.com …plus-sneak-preview-photos


this was back in 2016. I'm not promoting cell phone use, just point out that skill trumps camera almost 100% of the time.