Sony Announces the new A7 R IV 60Mp camera....... WHY 60 MP's

Wilt wrote in post #18900316
I went back to CIPA figures

• 2018 Non-Reflex camera production: 4,257,239
  
• 2017 Non-Reflex camera production: 4,117,822
  
• 2016 Non-Reflex camera production: 3,137,719
  
• 2015 Non-Reflex camera production: 3,252,995
  
• 2014 Non-Reflex camera production: 3,166,481
  
• 2013 Non-Reflex camera production: 3,182,694
  
• 2012 Non-Reflex camera production: 4,228,735
  

Before 2012, no statistics on reflex vs. non-reflex camera production was reported.

Compared to the 2012 peak, mirrorless volumes had hardly grown by 2018...and volumes are projected to be down in 2019.
So far, in 2019 (Jan-May), volumes of interchageable lens digital cameras is down about 27%

Mirrorless sales volume peaked in terms of sales volume, but again, sales volume is not the correct metric to measure when your strategy has shifted to selling high margin products at lower volumes.

The market is shifting away from focusing on selling high volumes $600 EOS M type cameras, to lower volumes of $2K+ a7 and EOS R type camears.

So we'd want to look through the appropriate lens (pardon the pun) to get an understanding of whether or not this strategy is successful, and as such, whether a camera like the a7rIV is a viable product to bring to market.

Since Sony has been taking this strategy on for a while, we can look to their performance to see if this has been working or not....

From 2016 to 2017, Sony's sales grew by 76 billion yen and operating margins grew by 28 billion. 2018 forecast was basically expecting to be flat in terms of sales and operating income

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18900462
Most of the recent discussion is more like someone willing to spend quite a bit of money on a very good table saw that they will use for the next decade, only to find out that some basic features were left out which could be found on a Ryobi saw. They don't want to buy both this new expensive table saw AND the Ryobi one.

That example runs out of gas pretty quick, because the saw after the Ryobi brings them back to square one like Snakes and Ladders looking at things that way. If the first saw was really a "VERY good saw" .. nobody needs the Ryobi or the next one. I'm using the same table saw for about 20 years now.

As for "most of the talk" recently, it stems from someone saying something to the effect Sony would have Canon's top execs eating crumbs, as if Sony's sales were light years ahead.

It seemed to be a crystal ball prognostication related to the Sony A7R iv.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18900342
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Absolutely!

But of course I would have to know for sure that the animal eye AF would work perfectly in all situations, not only in most situations, or some situations. . And it would have to work in all modes - at the camera's highest frame rate and with the camera's highest resolution, and in conjunction with all of the camera's other features.

I would also need to know that the animal eye AF would work no matter how far, or how close the animal was, and no matter how large in the frame or small in the frame it was.

So just how often will any eye be visible in the frame...you can only see the eye of the animal thru 180 degrees of approach angle.

I am reminded of going to the web for a random collection of sports photography shots, and assessing how often the human eye of the subject was visible (wrong angle or helmet obstructing view of eyes)...and how often the only visible eyes were those of other players who were not in the same plane of focus!

https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=18722200

mdvaden wrote in post #18900775
As for "most of the talk" recently, it stems from someone saying something to the effect Sony would have Canon's top execs eating crumbs, as if Sony's sales were light years ahead.

No, Wilt, you got that wrong.

Sony and Canon are the industry leaders. Big huge industry leaders don't have to resort to eating crumbs, because they are at the top of the corporate game.

This is what mdvaden said, and my response to him:

mdvaden wrote in post #18899314
When the A7R iv is barely beyond the Canon 5DS, the new Sony certainly bowed in submission to another King !!

The Fuji gfx 100 is so far beyond, at best I see Sony's CEO kneeling to be knighted.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18899327
I don't see it that way at all.

In business, it is all about profits, not which camera is better. I think Sony will generate more profits from their A7 R IV than Fiji will with their GFX 100. I don't even think it is going to be close ..... from a sales and profit standpoint, I think the Sony will blow the Fuji out of the water. Isn't that obvious, given each company's place in the market?

When total profits are announced, the Fuji CEO would be fortunate to be allowed to crawl around the Sony CEO's floor, looking for crumbs to eat.

You are aware that CEOs don't care about which camera is better, aren't you?

Yes, Sony might well be smart to increase gross profits at the expense of selling fewer cameras, yet sell higher margin ones for increased profit percentage.

OTOH, the mirrorless units are NOT growing in volume, for anyone! Selling more 'share of market' does not do anyone any good, when units are down.

Wilt wrote in post #18900786
Yes, Sony might well be smart to increase gross profits at the expense of selling fewer cameras, yet sell higher margin ones for increased profit percentage.

OTOH, the mirrorless units are NOT growing in volume, for anyone! Selling more 'share of market' does not do anyone any good, when units are down.

Sony is growing in both revenue and operating income and that's really the only metric that matters at the end of the day.

Marketshare is a relevant metric when you're looking at like for like products... But the mirrorless camera market is highly segmented because it entails everything from the eos M5 all the way up to esoteric leica and Hasselblad MF cameras so looking at mirrorless camera sales as a whole doesn't tell us squat. The fact that mirrorless sales overall are declining because people are buying fewer throwaway EOS M and a6000 kits at Costco on black friday has no bearing on Leica, or Hasselblad, or EOS R or Sony a7rIV. It's more relevant to look at marketshare in more narrow segments.... i.e marketshare for FF cameras

mystik610 wrote in post #18900878
Sony is growing in both revenue and operating income and that's really the only metric that matters at the end of the day.

You may be better off to stick to the thread topic, as it doesn't look like you know what you are talking about. Evidenced by the "that matters at the end of the day".Income doesn't really mean "$hit" to most people. A company can slaughter profits for several years with acquisitions for future years, and skyrocket other year profits by neglect of maintenance ... etc.. etc.. Maybe the only thing that matters is they decide, they have the accounting files, and they get to make their decisions. One reason your comment stuck out, I know some sole proprietors and corporate owners who coordinated purchases, facilities and other stuff so that years they raked in the most money, showed as a loss. But they were perfectly good with the loss, because it was theie game plan.

Other than that I suggest linking conversation to the A7R iv directly or indirectly rather than speculate.

mdvaden wrote in post #18900891
You may be better off to stick to the thread topic, as it doesn't look like you know what you are talking about. Evidenced by the "that matters at the end of the day".Income doesn't really mean "$hit" to most people.

Lol photography is a side gig for me.

I've worked in corporate strategy type roles for over 10 years. M&A, FP&A, and most recently, sales/marketing finance and strategy

mdvaden wrote in post #18900891
A company can slaughter profits for several years with acquisitions for future years, and skyrocket other year profits by neglect of maintenance ... etc.. etc.. Maybe the only thing that matters is they decide, they have the accounting files, and they get to make their decisions.

Other than that I suggest linking conversation to the A7R iv directly or indirectly rather than speculate.

This is why you look at revenue and operating income. Everything you're talking about would be accounted for outside of operating expenses and operating income as they aren't related to the core operations of the business.

Im just wondering who was the first person to bring up marketshare in this thread

elitejp wrote in post #18900894
Im just wondering who was the first person to bring up marketshare in this thread

Never used the search the forum feature before? Although, the dialogue may not appear as a specific vocabulary word. I just tested the search feature. Try it out if you haven't used it before. Be sure to split the word apart too, since some write it as one word or two words.

I use the search feature the most for lenses and lens reviews.

If you need someone to call you out then i will. You are on every sony thread trying to put whatever they do down. While anything canon does is the greatest.
I dont feel like rereading or searching every post you make. But making a statement like sony is eating the crumbs in the mirrorless market and then later telling others to not talk about marketshare etc is just petty.

I dont care what company has what marketshare as long as they are a viable business and produce great cameras then im interested.
Potn has been a great service to many including me but this my brand is better than your brand that some people consistently put out is just a annoying.

elitejp wrote in post #18900905
If you need someone to call you out then i will. You are on every sony thread trying to put whatever they do down. While anything canon does is the greatest. I dont feel like rereading or searching every post you make. But making a statement like sony is eating the crumbs

If someone did an actual count, I think we'll see absolutely no "every" and reveal the antithesis to calling anybody out. Maybe you confuse your own activity and project it toward others (???) Don't need the answer and don't care. Your reply expresses a degree of confusion. I basically stated that Sony and other companies are on a similar playing field, in similar position.

Now for info and the real topic at hand, here's a decent video for others who may be interested. Whereas most other reviews circle around very similar stuff, this video breaks some good ground for fresh ideas to consider.

elitejp wrote in post #18900894
Im just wondering who was the first person to bring up marketshare in this thread

It happens in every gear thread.

"Sony camera is great on paper, but pshhh....their marketshare sucks, or the market sales volume is declining so who cares?"

The thing is a camera like the a7iv is not designed to sell in high volumes....it's a high margin, low volume type product so they fact that people are buying fewer of the discount bin DSLR kits that historically drove a lot of Canoikons sales volume is not relevant to this camera at all.

Charlie wrote in post #18897992
uhhh, I hate the be the bearer of good news, but all the A7/A9 cameras not only do 1.5 crop 4K video, but you can get an additional 2x magnification through clear image zoom.

essentially, a 75mm from my zoom goes to 105mm, then goes to ~200mm.

with all the custom buttons, you will have to configure one for clear image zoom.

if you happen to play with electronic zooms, the lens will zoom past it limit into the digital zoom automatically..... the 16-50 becomes a 16-100mm, in a 100g package..... Downside is image degradation under low light.

You wont be missing crop mode..... because you have it.

I missed this...Excellent! I'll have to RTFM to set up a custom shooting set for Video.