Aftermarket batteries for newer models?

I've had my 5D IV "malfunctioning" shortly before one of the Wasabis died. Fortunately, it's been only one of the "C" programming that's been affected. I programmed AEB shooting set up to "C1" button. After awhile, the program somehow gets "erased" and I'd have to assign it once more. I don't know whether it has anything to do with Wasabi or there's a defect in my relatively new 5D IV. There's no way to tell where the problem stems from. For now, I just exchanged the AEB assignment to "C3" button with another function assigned to "C1" button. Will monitor these functions to see if any anomalous behavior shows up in the next few days. My later Wasabis aren't performing the same way that my old Wasabis have, so I'm also of the opinion that Wasabi has undergone some change over the years. I'm now trying out new STKs and see if they perform like my old Wasabis.

electronpusher wrote in post #18993077
Very strange situation for me...
...From the satisfied Wasabi posts here it appears something about Wasabi batteries has changed over the years - or Canon has started to block non-OEM batteries like some inkjet printers block non-OEM ink cartridges. Anyone notice the same issues?

I'd expect it has something to do with electronic circuits which are a two-way communication
between camera and battery. These systems have no doubt become more sophisticated
between your Mark II and the Mark IV, so your older Wasabi packs likely aren't up to the
level of sophistication required by the camera.

For the record, my Wasabi pair are operating without fault in my Mark IV;
they are recent purchases.

SkedAddled wrote in post #18993084
I'd expect it has something to do with electronic circuits which are a two-way communication
between camera and battery. These systems have no doubt become more sophisticated
between your Mark II and the Mark IV, so your older Wasabi packs likely aren't up to the
level of sophistication required by the camera.

For the record, my Wasabi pair are operating without fault in my Mark IV;
they are recent purchases.

This is what concerns me about the Wasabis, and highlights the potential difference between them and OEM batteries. The six Wasabis are the same age as original Canon LP-E6 that came with the 5DII. That they don't function in the 5DIV and the original Canon LP-E6 of the same age does is a bit concerning, as in, "what else don't I know about them?" The Wasabis worked very well in my 5DII for years, but now, well, I have my doubts about the level of sophistication and what that may affect going forward.

I'd expect to feel the same way were I in your shoes in the matter,
although I'd also suspect there is something very proprietary within
Canon batteries which have not or can not be cracked or reverse-
engineered by third-party makers.

It may also involve a copyright infringement or similar.

Whatever the case, I imagine the third-party makers have found
solid ways to make it work together without stepping on the
legal toes of Canon's attorneys.

The great unknown, about ANY BRAND of Lithium battery, is how old the battery is (how long it has been sitting on a retailer's shelf unused), before it comes into your possesion.

ALL lithium batteries begin to deteriorate, and lose capacity, from the DAY they were MADE...The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first.

Lithium batteries degrade even if you don't use them. According to battery-testing firm Cadex Electronics, a fully charged lithium-ion battery will lose about 20 percent of its capacity after a year of typical storage. Increase the temperature to just above 100 degrees Fahrenheitas in a hot attic, for exampleand that number is 35 percent.

On the other hand, an empty (discharged) battery pack can eventually fall into "deep discharge," at which point the battery's protection circuit, intended to prevent power from reaching defective battery cells, is triggered. This leaves the battery unable to charge at all.

electronpusher wrote in post #18993077
Very strange situation for me. I've had six Wasabi LP-E6s that I've rotated in my 5DII for years. After purchasing my new 5DIV, I found five of the six don't power up the 5DIV at all (as though they're dead), and one causes the 5DIV to display a message that it is not a genuine Canon battery, and would I like to "register" it. (I've never received a warning or "registration" message from the 5dII) After registering the one Wasabi, sometimes it works, and sometimes it's dead like the other five. All six Wasabis still charge in the Wasabi charger and power the 5DII just fine. I have the original LP-E6 that came with the 5DII, a new LP-E6N that came with the 5DIV, and a new Canon LP-E6N I've purchased from B&H. All three Canon's work fine in the 5DII and the 5DIV. From the satisfied Wasabi posts here it appears something about Wasabi batteries has changed over the years - or Canon has started to block non-OEM batteries like some inkjet printers block non-OEM ink cartridges. Anyone notice the same issues?

Keep in mind that a battery purchased within the time frame of the 5DII (announced September 2008) is not likely to be chipped for the much more recent 5DIV.

I don't know if the Sterlingtek/STK batteries I've owned were made in Japan
or China, as they are fairly long gone after the last of them petered out.

When I found the STK packs not doing well for the 50D, I purchased a 4-pack
of batteries labeled MASIONE brand from an eBay seller, probably from China.
Each one of the four is clearly labeled "Made in China." They were extremely
inexpensive as BP-511A replacements.
I was unable to find more of the STK batteries at the time,
just as I was unable to find their LP-E6 for the 5DIV later.

It may now actually be a year or more since I've used the 50D.
I just switched on the power, and the MASIONE pack within it
has the camera showing a full charge.

By comparison, the 5DIV, with a Wasabi pack installed,
displays about 50% charge after only a few weeks of being idle.
It may be worth sourcing one of the MASIONE packs for a trial
in a 5DIV, for an accurate comparison.

Still, I believe the newer cameras require more from the battery pack
than older cameras require, even if the camera is powered off.
As an example, doesn't the 5DIV not use a coin battery for retaining
hardware-level settings, whereas older cameras do?

Keep in mind lpe6 batteries aren't just batteries, there is an electronic board attached to the cells to register to the camera and monitor/charge capacity. Canon keep changing these over the years to try to limit use of these third party batteries.

So yes older batteries aren't chipped the same for newer cameras, they don't "register" the same as Canon ones, but later those third party manufacturers reverse engineered their batteries better and now new ones work like OE.

If you can get to the direct cells after they hit that point of no return where they won't charge, there is a way to resurrect them.

It is kind of haphazard how 3rd party batteries are compatible with the 5D4 (because of the bi-directional circuitry). I have 1 Canon battery and 2 "BM" brand batteries I got from Amazon (also got them as they included a dual charger). I like using a grip, and have found that Canon doesn't recognize the "BM" batteries if I only have them in the grip. I have to have 1 Canon and 1 BM in the grip. The 3rd party batteries seem to have the same performance as the Canon (their capacity stays the same as the Canon). I'm just guessing that when overall battery health gets down far enough....that means I should buy one Canon and one after market just to be sure!

electronpusher wrote in post #18993077
Very strange situation for me. I've had six Wasabi LP-E6s that I've rotated in my 5DII for years. After purchasing my new 5DIV, I found five of the six don't power up the 5DIV at all (as though they're dead), and one causes the 5DIV to display a message that it is not a genuine Canon battery, and would I like to "register" it. (I've never received a warning or "registration" message from the 5dII) After registering the one Wasabi, sometimes it works, and sometimes it's dead like the other five. All six Wasabis still charge in the Wasabi charger and power the 5DII just fine. I have the original LP-E6 that came with the 5DII, a new LP-E6N that came with the 5DIV, and a new Canon LP-E6N I've purchased from B&H. All three Canon's work fine in the 5DII and the 5DIV. From the satisfied Wasabi posts here it appears something about Wasabi batteries has changed over the years - or Canon has started to block non-OEM batteries like some inkjet printers block non-OEM ink cartridges. Anyone notice the same issues?

Coming to this late, but it's not that strange after all.

If your Wasabi LP-E6 are 5D2 era, then no they would not work with the 5D4.
With the 5D4 and the 5D3 for that matter any time Canon comes out with a new generation, this is a possible problem. With the 5D4 they made enough changes with the coding for the LP-E6n etc. that most 3rd party batteries were either not fully functional, or completely unusable. Wasabi very quickly "re-coded" their LP-E6 batteries so the newer ones report and behave exactly like a Canon,. but I had two from my 5D3 that would work, and power it, but the communication was not complete. No "recharge bars' etc.

So back to the initial post in this thread, Wasabi, STK etc. all are still very good options for newer bodies, BUT, if you have old 5D2 era batts, they may not work in a 5D4, and they may not work in EOS - R, etc..

IMHO, in all the years I have been using 3rd party batteries, "future-proofing" (or the inability to do so) is the only issue I've ever come across. by that time, it's usually time for a fresh battery anyway. ( says the guy that just managed to revive two of his three original LP-E4 batts from one of the first 1D MarkIIIs sold in the US circa March 2007 to function in his 1DXII.... )

SkedAddled wrote in post #18993157
<big snip>

Still, I believe the newer cameras require more from the battery pack
than older cameras require, even if the camera is powered off.
As an example, doesn't the 5DIV not use a coin battery for retaining
hardware-level settings, whereas older cameras do?

I think this a big part of the problem. My T3i can sit on the shelf for about a year and still have a usable charge on the battery. My 7D2 will last about 3 months.

The big difference is the 7D2 has no clock battery.

Rod

Wilt wrote in post #18993103
The great unknown, about ANY BRAND of Lithium battery, is how old the battery is (how long it has been sitting on a retailer's shelf unused), before it comes into your possesion.

ALL lithium batteries begin to deteriorate, and lose capacity, from the DAY they were MADE...The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first.

Lithium batteries degrade even if you don't use them. According to battery-testing firm Cadex Electronics, a fully charged lithium-ion battery will lose about 20 percent of its capacity after a year of typical storage. Increase the temperature to just above 100 degrees Fahrenheitas in a hot attic, for exampleand that number is 35 percent.

On the other hand, an empty (discharged) battery pack can eventually fall into "deep discharge," at which point the battery's protection circuit, intended to prevent power from reaching defective battery cells, is triggered. This leaves the battery unable to charge at all.

Thanks for the bad news.
I know, it's just statistics.

My T3i (purchased 2012) is still running on the original battery and the new OEM battery for it was bought in 2013 and the package hasn't been opened yet.
My 7D2 (purchased 2014) is also running on the original with thew new unopened spare OEM bought in 2016.

Maybe I need a grip that takes AA batteries

Rod

RodS57 wrote in post #18993310
Thanks for the bad news.
I know, it's just statistics.

My T3i (purchased 2012) is still running on the original battery and the new OEM battery for it was bought in 2013 and the package hasn't been opened yet.
My 7D2 (purchased 2014) is also running on the original with thew new unopened spare OEM bought in 2016.

And I have the original batteries from a Canon G2 that my wife gave me in 2004 , the same battery type which works in Canon 20D and 30D and 40D (I still have the 40D, purchased around 2008), and they still 'work' ...but their capacity is a fraction of what it was when the batteries were new.

aka BP511.
I still have one kicking around, Got rid of the rest when I finally parted with my IRD60