EOS R TECH THREAD- Its time for others who will jump into canon Mirrorless bodies

Image stabilization is electro mechanical. It is not stabilization by processing the image that the sensor sees. That is digital stabilization which is not IBIS, and you don't want that anyways as you have to lose resolution to make that work.

The lens has a gyroscopic sensor and so does the body. They cannot work independently, they must work in unison, and we already have two or three systems that do this now and thus it is known that they must work together.

There isn't really any debating that and there really isn't anything to theorize on.

Before this thread goes to hell, let's have some basis (i.e. axis movement) for comparisons. This is to correct a few postings in previous pages.

IS= pitch and yaw on lens
IBIS= X,Y, roll, pitch, and yaw on sensor

If the IS and IBIS work together, I'm guessing that there will be a higher degrees of pitch and yaw. In practice, I'm don't know what that means, but some of you are better at technical stuff than me....

For X and Y movement, it will be most beneficial for video guys w/o the sacrifice of cropped FOV

Lastly, I believe the IBIS system is essentially replacing the mirror system. Just when I thought going mirrorless will be less complex, but we may see 2+ CPUs for the different systems.

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #19011108
With the Canon adapter, I get lens OS on EF lenses with electronic stabilization on the M6 Mk II.

This is really getting tiring. No one here is going to convince you that they can work in unison, obviously. So that's sort of the end of that. None of us know how Canon will implement it all. So that's sort of the end of that. You're just arguing to argue that Canon can't do something that other manufacturers have obviously already done, and I'm not really sure why.

I'm out. I'll be back in July to say, "I told you all so." Loudly.

You're probably confusing video or burst stabilization with (single) exposure stabilization.

Anyway, I never said that two (single) exposure stabilization systems can't be made to work together. What I said is that Canon's EF IS does not seem to be anything more than the body turning on the power for IS if the lens wants to draw it, with no communication. That means that the only types of motion that IBIS can safely provide while a lens with EF IS may be active are ones that EF IS never corrects. Any duplicate correction will fail, lacking very fast communication and cooperation.

arthurbikemad wrote in post #19011115
Maybe I missed something but Canon have already said the R5 IBIS works in harmony with Lens IS?

"New standards in stability
For the first time on any Canon camera, In Body Image Stabilisation is offered which works in harmony with Canon RF lenses with IS to provide the ultimate in shake-free super-sharp images and movies. Film or shoot without a tripod in the knowledge that you’ll always achieve the smoothest, sharpest result."

Not sure if it works together (internal IS plus external IS) with EF IS lense, maybe this is one of the things the new RF comms system provides.

That's the point some of us have been making. It may be possible that Canon has included sufficient communication with RF, but the chances of EF working along with R IBIS are likely nil, unless IBIS provides some corrections not done with any EF IS..

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19011120
we can debate this up until Canon finally tells us, but to counter your query,
How do we know if they need to be aware of each other to work together?

They don't both have to know, but the new (RF) protocol has to turn off some of its corrections that overlap with the EF lens IS, to avoid double correction.

Both EF lens IS and sensor-moving IBIS for single exposures only do one thing - they feel the motion and counter it in real time. They do not see anything. That's a fact; not my hypothesis.

That's impossible. By the time you have an image to look at, it is already too late for the second system to do anything about it. It has to happen in real time. Lens IS and sensor-moving IBIS correct in microseconds; not after an exposure and image analysis. Are you thinking of "night scene" modes with aligned/stacked bursts, or video stabilization that aligns video frames after the fact?

From the limited text that's available now, it seems Canon is indicating that IBIS with RF lenses work in conjunction with one another (how exactly that works, we'll find out). Perhaps there is extra thought about a synchronized axis system with the axis of lens and sensor plane. Because an R lens also has more contacts, we know it has a separate interface and obviously would work differently than an EF lens. Chances are that if a R5 is mounted with an adapted IS EF lens (which it can sense because of the contacts), it will just disable its IBIS.

davesrose wrote in post #19011513
From the limited text that's available now, it seems Canon is indicating that IBIS with RF lenses work in conjunction with one another (how exactly that works, we'll find out). Perhaps there is extra thought about a synchronized axis system with the axis of lens and sensor plane. Because an R lens also has more contacts, we know it has a separate interface and obviously would work differently than an EF lens. Chances are that if a R5 is mounted with an adapted IS EF lens (which it can sense because of the contacts), it will just disable its IBIS.

It could also just enable correction of motions that the EF lens is known not to do, as problems only exist with two concurrent stabilization systems when they double-correct the same type of motion. For example, if an IBIS could twist (rotate) the sensor, it could still do that with any EF lens.

gjl711 wrote in post #19009346
I think that the R is just a mirrorless 5DIV as it almost matches features and performance. It's not exact, but it's darn close.

agreed

Now we have to see if the AF works- thats gonna take people getting it in their hands

gjl711 wrote in post #19009658
Set them to GMT. Problem solved.. . forever.

What is GMT

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19010121
.
Many people who have used recent 1D series bodies and 5D4 bodies and also used Canon's FF mirrorless bodies contend that in very dark conditions, like candlelight or outdoor nighttime conditions, there are situations in which the DSLRs are able to find the subject and acquire focus, but that when the FF mirrorless bodies are used in the same almost-black conditions, they struggle to acquire focus, or simply cannot find the subject at all.

Personally, if I am going to switch to a new piece of gear, then I need that gear to do 100% of everything that my old gear did, just as well, and then also do more new things in addition to that. . If there is any deficiency in the new gear at all, then I'd just as soon piss all over it and say, "no freaking way." . We demand ALL of the advantages, along with ZERO disadvantages, before we will switch to something new. . Being so demanding gives me a sense of power (albeit false) and elitism that feels good.


.

1000% spot on

My attitude is R5 has to have a better AF than the 5D4.......or whats the point of buying Unless you have GAS syndrome

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19010144
Among other aspects, yes,
- EOS R can not keep up with the 5D4 in very low light shooting situations
- EOS R is very far behind when it comes to tracking fast moving action.

That said, the Live view features of the 1DXIII appear to show that Canon is coming along quite well in this regard. We shall see soon.

Exactly

the R5 has to be better than a 5D4 to be considered un upgrade to me

Im also concerned about the 40-45MB sensor......There is no way that this will be able to compete with a 1Dx or 5D4 for clean ISO.....this would be a major concern if we cant get it past 6400 like a D850 or 5Dsr

Im concerned about high ISO capabilities and AF with this R5

lets see what its going to be able to do

arthurbikemad wrote in post #19011115
Maybe I missed something but Canon have already said the R5 IBIS works in harmony with Lens IS?

"New standards in stability
For the first time on any Canon camera, In Body Image Stabilisation is offered which works in harmony with Canon RF lenses with IS to provide the ultimate in shake-free super-sharp images and movies. Film or shoot without a tripod in the knowledge that you’ll always achieve the smoothest, sharpest result."

Not sure if it works together (internal IS plus external IS) with EF IS lense, maybe this is one of the things the new RF comms system provides.

They said exactly this

I Still remember getting flamed for posting all future Mirrorless bodies will have IBIS

People read this an interpret what they think v/s what Canon said ( Teamspeed )

I have read that with IBIS ( that all future canon mirrorless bodies will have ) and use of IS lens are going to be equilivent to 7 stops

Im sure I will get flamed for that statement....but Canon said this Not me.......7 stops is a lot

umphotography wrote in post #19013529
Exactly

the R5 has to be better than a 5D4 to be considered un upgrade to me

Im also concerned about the 40-45MB sensor......There is no way that this will be able to compete with a 1Dx or 5D4 for clean ISO.....this would be a major concern if we cant get it past 6400 like a D850 or 5Dsr

Im concerned about high ISO capabilities and AF with this R5

lets see what its going to be able to do

If the AF is equal to the 5D4, and ergonomics are as good or better, then that is still an upgrade for me. Substantially more resolution and faster bursts would solve any remaining issues I have with the 5D4. At that point as well, I will not have a need for an APS-C body at that time.

umphotography wrote in post #19013523
What is GMT

It's Greenwich Mean Time or UT, Universal Time. (yea, they are different but more or less the same thing) It's the time standard that remains the same across the globe. Local time changes from time zone to time zone, and DST or no DST, but is based off of the UTC or GMT and those are constant. For instance, I live in the Dallas area. Our time is UTC-6. If I travel to say LA, UTC stays the same but my local time offset is UTC-8. I work with a lot of folks around the globe and it's almost impossible to keep track of their local time, but my PC displays UTC and I can remember what their offset is. Like Tokyo is UTC+12. I look at my clock UTC and see it's 1:00pm so Tokyo local time is 1:00am. Gonna pi$$ someone off if I call.

gjl711 wrote in post #19013536
It's Greenwich Mean Time or UT, Universal Time. (yea, they are different but more or less the same thing) It's the time standard that remains the same across the globe. Local time changes from time zone to time zone, and DST or no DST, but is based off of the UTC or GMT and those are constant. For instance, I live in the Dallas area. Our time is UTC-6. If I travel to say LA, UTC stays the same but my local time offset is UTC-8. I work with a lot of folks around the globe and it's almost impossible to keep track of their local time, but my PC displays UTC and I can remember what their offset is. Like Tokyo is UTC+12. I look at my clock UTC and see it's 1:00pm so Tokyo local time is 1:00am. Gonna pi$$ someone off if I call.

Thank you. I never knew this. Great Idea

But i dont have 50 cameras to reset like jared