Upgrade from Canon 5D Mark IV to A7R IV ?

Hey guys, so I never used Sony before but it seems there are some positives in Sony innovation than Canon.

I love the 5D Mark IV where touch screen works so well, and the LCD is of great quality.

Now i was thinking of upgrading to A7RIII but then the RIV coming out soon.

Would it be worth upgrading? Give your views on this please

Many thanks
Asif Salam

Probably a decent move, but be sure you are able to handle the much, much larger files that will come out of the camera. I have heard that some of the raws might be well over 100Mb in size.

What problem are you trying to address? Sony does give you a few things and is a mirrorless, but from all I have read and seen, the final product is going to be really close.

The eye focus, face focus for both movie and still is a massive help. I use a lot of f1.4 lenses of Sigma EF and they are amazing but due to large aperture sometime it is not easy to be certain the focus is perfect on the eye which is a tiny part of the photo.

I have a brand new AMD 16 core 32 gb ram PC so i will be able to handle the new 60 megapixel raw file on the M.2 and SSD drives.

Also the video has much more enhancement on Sony than Canon and always been.

Also i will be going from 30 to 60 megapixel so i can crop photos much better to make another photo.

also it will do all this in 10FPS which is really amazing. Back in the day only a 1D was capable of doing this but it was always will less megapixel.

Now the Sony A7R IV can do all that with 60 megapixel with 10FPS. my personal opinion is i find it quite amazing the result of this new camera

As much as I hate to rent, this might be a good situation to make sure this is a move you want to make by renting the camera and EF adapter and trying it for a week.

I agree in principle with TeamSpeeds recommendation.... but I also want to put a caution to it as well. I went mirrorless probably three years ago from Canon to Sony. I would say it was a good three or four months until I had that epiphany moment where I full grasped the full impact and nuanced differences. In the beginning I kept using the Sony like it was a Canon, and didn't rely on some of the new capabilities. So understand that in a weekend or even week, you may get a flavor of the differences, but it takes longer to fully appreciate the differences.

Example... there is a wedding shooter thread asking for input on how well mirrorless cameras work for wedding shooters. In it there is an example of a shooter who had issues with focus jumping from subject to background leaves. How you deal with that between a Canon and a Sony are different. First - the Sony has eye focus and now object tracking that would take care of the issue. But lets say that it was still being an issue. On a Sony how you deal with that is to go to quasi manual focus mode - using the focus ring and focus peaking to confirm what you want in focus is indeed in focus. On a Canon that would mean going from viewfinder to rear screen. On the Sony its just simpler to use manual focus on the fly to make sure what you want in focus is indeed in focus - when eye focus can't grab what you want.

Little things you don't learn or become proficient with over a weekend - or a week.

In your case, I would expect you might appreciate some of the tools Sony has come forward with. I am sure with some patience Canon will offer these same features.... so its a decision of giving Canon time, or having to reinvest on gear for a short term gain. I am in the market to replace my backup camera - used a A6300 before.... trying to decide on another Sony or giving the Canon R a try...

Croasdail wrote in post #18913859
I agree in principle with TeamSpeeds recommendation.... but I also want to put a caution to it as well. I went mirrorless probably three years ago from Canon to Sony. I would say it was a good three or four months until I had that epiphany moment where I full grasped the full impact and nuanced differences. In the beginning I kept using the Sony like it was a Canon, and didn't rely on some of the new capabilities. So understand that in a weekend or even week, you may get a flavor of the differences, but it takes longer to fully appreciate the differences.

Example... there is a wedding shooter thread asking for input on how well mirrorless cameras work for wedding shooters. In it there is an example of a shooter who had issues with focus jumping from subject to background leaves. How you deal with that between a Canon and a Sony are different. First - the Sony has eye focus and now object tracking that would take care of the issue. But lets say that it was still being an issue. On a Sony how you deal with that is to go to quasi manual focus mode - using the focus ring and focus peaking to confirm what you want in focus is indeed in focus. On a Canon that would mean going from viewfinder to rear screen. On the Sony its just simpler to use manual focus on the fly to make sure what you want in focus is indeed in focus - when eye focus can't grab what you want.

Little things you don't learn or become proficient with over a weekend - or a week.

In your case, I would expect you might appreciate some of the tools Sony has come forward with. I am sure with some patience Canon will offer these same features.... so its a decision of giving Canon time, or having to reinvest on gear for a short term gain. I am in the market to replace my backup camera - used a A6300 before.... trying to decide on another Sony or giving the Canon R a try...

Just to provide a slightly different view on Canon MF and eye-AF: there has been an upgrade for eye-AF with the Canon R-series, and it works way better now, including tracking and including video AFAIK, although I don’t shoot video. There is another upgrade for it in the making as well.

As to focus jumping, and a workaround for it, apart from this being, IMO, a minor issue, which also occurs with dslrs: MF on the EOS R is exceedingly good with dual pixel focus and focus peaking, and there also is the Focus Guide option which, IMO, is even better. It is like providing a split prism option focusing for wherever you have set your focusing point. Works extremely well.

Kind regards, Wim

5D4 is proven, A7RIV is unknown. A7RIII is proven and has 10fps.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18913798
As much as I hate to rent, this might be a good situation to make sure this is a move you want to make by renting the camera and EF adapter and trying it for a week.

uhhh, no..... better off trying a much more mature product like the A7R3, sometimes you can snatch up for 2K...... if you can buy for that price, you can likely sell for that price in 6 months. The R4 will likely take a 1K loss in value by then, learning Sony takes some time, however the newest AF algorith, and depending on subject, has no learning curve. Simply aim at subject, and if there's an eye, it grabs it, if not, it grabs the head, if not, stays on the body........ uh yeah, it's stupid simple, dont really need eye AF because it's simply AF at that point, saying Eye AF is redundant. The R3 Also have the auto eye AF, but the implementation is slightly different and not as good.

You may or may not like it, but with a long term camera, you get to know the ins and outs much better, R3 + MC11.

On the lens front, switching to Sony is easy, it adapts well, but aside from that, they have the best lens selection by far, as in. Do you really want to play the adapting game? It'll drive you mad once you start juggling adapted and native lenses.I still have a few adapted lenses, like a Macro (hardly use), 70-200 (hardly use), 135 (hardly use). When I adapt, I never use two adapted lenses at once, it's only one, and the adapter does not leave the body. There are three native mount 24mm, one 28, six 35mm, 40mm, 45mm, a million 50's, five 85's. You've got f4 zooms from 12-200, f2.8 zooms from 14-200, all of this NATIVE E-mount.

Most of these have a third party low cost version, the Samyang lenses can be dirt cheap for AF native E-mount, and many folks take advantage of that. Tamron f2.8 zooms get you from 17-75 f2.8 for under 1KG and $1700, pretty darn good for full frame lenses.

When I got into Canon, it was all about the lenses lenses lenses....... Sony has a ton of native lenses, including the super telephotos.

Eye AF is revolutionary. It may take you a while and many dont even agree with me on this topic, Eye AF is revolutionary.

Considering Asif gave us no clues about the reasons why for the upgrade or what is typically photographed, and the fact that moving from a very, very good Canon camera that is years old to some other Sony camera that is also years old doesn't seem like much an upgrade, why not tell someone to first try out the newest Sony kid on the block?

I personally don't find the A7r3 as an upgrade to my 5D4, after having watched countless videos and discussions on that camera and knowing what I shoot, and I wouldn't be alone in that.

I guess if Sony products suck so bad when they are first released, and then it takes years for that model to "mature" (err, be fixed), then yes, go with something old and stable.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18914559
Considering Asif gave us no clues about the reasons why for the upgrade or what is typically photographed, and the fact that moving from a very, very good Canon camera that is years old to some other Sony camera that is also years old doesn't seem like much an upgrade, why not tell someone to first try out the newest Sony kid on the block?

I personally don't find the A7r3 as an upgrade to my 5D4, after having watched countless videos and discussions on that camera and knowing what I shoot, and I wouldn't be alone in that.

I guess if Sony products suck so bad when they are first released, and then it takes years for that model to "mature" (err, be fixed), then yes, go with something old and stable.

Well he did, he wanted strong video features and eye AF. Sony has been top of the Eye AF league dating back to the very old A7R2, and even that camera does considerably better video than the 5D4 however it doesn't have the fast framerates of the R3.

Charlie wrote in post #18914635
Well he did, he wanted strong video features and eye AF. Sony has been top of the Eye AF league dating back to the very old A7R2, and even that camera does considerably better video than the 5D4 however it doesn't have the fast framerates of the R3.

If one is going to upgrade and actually change manufacturers why not first make sure the latest of that manufacturer is or isn't what is wanted before deciding to go to an older model? You said my suggestion was wrong to even try out the A7r4, I fail to see why, unless Sony's initial offerings of their new cameras are garbage and it takes months for Sony to fix them.

I wouldn't want to spend twice; go and switch to Sony and buy the A7r3, only to find out in a year I really wished I had bought the A7r4 because either it is superior in ways, or Sony upgraded it with some firmware updates. Renting for a few days would be very sufficient to try it out to check out ergnomics, menu structures, eye AF, resolution/file sizes and quality, etc. before really committing to the move. I know if/when I switch, it will be to the latest and best from Sony, and not to a 2+ year old model, but that is me.

In regards to the "added requirements" meaning that Sony can only be the product to fulfill the needs, f1.4 lenses and people's eyes in focus can easily be figured out with the 5D4, unless your DOF is so narrow that only the eyes are in focus and the ears and mouth are not, which is usually not a good look.

Just enhanced better video isn't really a requirement that can be leveraged in this discussion without knowing what specifically. Canon video has always been good, so it only comes down to 4K needs possibly. Canon equipment is extensively used in some of the LA production studios, so more info would be needed there too. Is it 4K, is it 120fps for slow mo, what specifically about video is needed?

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18914644
If one is going to upgrade and actually change manufacturers why not first make sure the latest of that manufacturer is or isn't what is wanted before deciding to go to an older model? You said my suggestion was wrong to even try out the A7r4, I fail to see why, unless Sony's initial offerings of their new cameras are garbage and it takes months for Sony to fix them.

I wouldn't want to spend twice; go and switch to Sony and buy the A7r3, only to find out in a year I really wished I had bought the A7r4 because either it is superior in ways, or Sony upgraded it with some firmware updates. Renting for a few days would be very sufficient to try it out to check out ergnomics, menu structures, eye AF, resolution/file sizes and quality, etc. before really committing to the move. I know if/when I switch, it will be to the latest and best from Sony, and not to a 2+ year old model, but that is me.

In regards to the "added requirements" meaning that Sony can only be the product to fulfill the needs, f1.4 lenses and people's eyes in focus can easily be figured out with the 5D4, unless your DOF is so narrow that only the eyes are in focus and the ears and mouth are not, which is usually not a good look.

Just enhanced better video isn't really a requirement that can be leveraged in this discussion without knowing what specifically. Canon video has always been good, so it only comes down to 4K needs possibly. Canon equipment is extensively used in some of the LA production studios, so more info would be needed there too. Is it 4K, is it 120fps for slow mo, what specifically about video is needed?

few days tells you nothing. You may like it, you may not, in either case, you have very little clue about the system, it's a drastic change.

You have control over IBIS

You have control over a silent shutter

You have control over a first curtain shutter

You have control over crop mode vs FF in photos and video.

You have clear image zoom, a useful and distinct video feature.

You have control over proxies

You have control over zooming functions on some power zoom lenses, can be a big deal for video shooting.

You have DEEP control with picture profiles, learning that alone can take ages in experimentation

You have a custom functions for photos and video separately

You can BBAF or BBMF, havent seen any brand offer this

Pixel shift workflow sucks, but your may like the results and put up with it

you need to be able to harness these tools to be able to understand the system. It's hard enough to understand these nuances, to make use of it is a different story. While you can skip all these features, and brush them off since previous Canon didnt have them.... just saying to give Sony a real chance, it takes more than a few days. You may find out, it's too difficult or not necessary or with enough familiarity, find that you cant live life without certain features. Few days is not enough to tell you. It's almost like recommending someone interested in photography to rent a 1Dx for the weekend, and if they like it, buy it...... the task is overwhelming, you cant possibly learn that fast.

there's no real discussion about canon or sony video, sony can do all AND MORE. The lenses were designed to do video, some parafocal consumer lenses, powered zooms, internal zooms, silent motors, great onboard audio, considerably better in a pinch. Better video with video AF pretty much rules out most "production studio" video cameras, and to me, sounds like documentary style videos that are no hassle. Sounds like TS was interested in the "AND MORE" portion, like being able to have deep profile control, or ability to shoot in FF or Crop mode, as opposed to being forced to shoot only in crop..... and the ability to use a much more efficient codec rather than mjpeg.

Video is such a deep topic, however if you plan on hybrid shooting, and you cant match FOV of photography, it's a nonstarter.

I fail to see why buying an A73R is better than renting an A74R with what you listed?

So once again, why not spend $160 for a week with the a74r just to see what it is all about before committing to any kind of shift over to the a73r or a74r? I still haven't really seen a reason for the "no" you replied with on my original reply.

I am certain any reasonably intelligent person could figure out the Sony camera settings and controls within 24-48 hours, and be able to produce great shots and process them within another 24-48 hours, and the remaining time to play with all the different modes before having to send it back on the 7th day.

AsifSalam wrote in post #18913773
The eye focus, face focus for both movie and still is a massive help. I use a lot of f1.4 lenses of Sigma EF and they are amazing but due to large aperture sometime it is not easy to be certain the focus is perfect on the eye which is a tiny part of the photo.

I have a brand new AMD 16 core 32 gb ram PC so i will be able to handle the new 60 megapixel raw file on the M.2 and SSD drives.

Oh .. you're computer will stil let you feel the difference of the bigger files. I've got a custom built computer and surely realized what 5DS files are like. Once I start working on those, I can hear the fans in the case increase and the processing is certainly slower.

Going back to something Teamspeed posted about files sizes, I was curious myself, and someone replied on Amazon, a link to A7R iv specs showing sRAW and mRAW options. On the other hand, it someone chooses, sRAW and mRAW, then why not look at the A7R iii instead. The pixel shift feature has been shown to be pretty unreliable. So is the rest worth it? Because price deals will probably show up on the older models.