Upgrade from Canon 5D Mark IV to A7R IV ?

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18914700
I fail to see why buying an A73R is better than renting an A74R with what you listed?

So once again, why not spend $160 for a week with the a74r just to see what it is all about before committing to any kind of shift over to the a73r or a74r? I still haven't really seen a reason for the "no" you replied with on my original reply.

I am certain any reasonably intelligent person could figure out the Sony camera settings and controls within 24-48 hours, and be able to produce great shots and process them within another 24-48 hours, and the remaining time to play with all the different modes before having to send it back on the 7th day.

do you or anyone on this forum, rents gear for weeks at a time?

I dont, so I wouldnt recommend it. It's one thing to rent gear you're familiar with, another to go try something completely new and hope to learn it in a week or two. It's not going to happen that fast, you can ask anyone on the Sony board, all were pretty much past Canon shooters, how long it took them to really figure out the system. Depreciation is a much better way to approach long term rent, which you sorta need. I used Fuji for a month, and that thing was suppose to be easy, and at the same time, I cant say I know it very well. I cant say if the colors are magical or not, but everyone swears by it. AF felt sluggish, but then again, I dont know all the nuances. I really dont talk about fuji anywhere on this board because I dont know it well enough. lenses will be lenses, it doesnt take much for me to figure out that the fuji zoom felt better than a comparable sony zoom, but the body behaves differently enough that it takes some discovery.

Charlie wrote in post #18914724
do you or anyone on this forum, rents gear for weeks at a time?

I dont, so I wouldnt recommend it.

Here's a thought.

If the purchase is more want than need, let others rent and buy it, then watch the reviews for a month and let them share what they paid to learn. Some will keep their bodies, but a few will sell them. In a couple months, used models and open box will be available for less, and A7R iii models also with a likely price cut.

I never said weeks, I said week... $120 for the camera $30 for the adapter. Ok, go shorter, the costs go down from there.

You don't have to figure out the entire camera, you just have to use it, take some shots, dig into some menus, check out the EVF, hold it for a couple of hours with a lens on it, etc. I don't have to test drive a car for a month before deciding to spend $50K on it. I can determine that within 2 test drives, if not 1.

A rental is a test drive, not a "hey I would like to get to know you in depth" kinda thing. I also wouldn't rent this on the first week or even month of it being released. I would wait out for all the typical reviews, and for the honeymoon period to end. Then I might decide to rent it in order to see how it fits my style. It is a suggestion, some like that option to try before buy, others like to own right out of the gate.

mdvaden wrote in post #18914730
Here's a thought.

If the purchase is more want than need, let others rent and buy it, then watch the reviews for a month and let them share what they paid to learn. Some will keep their bodies, but a few will sell them. In a couple months, used models and open box will be available for less, and A7R iii models also with a likely price cut.

and want vs need, all of photography at this point is about wants . A 5Div is technically capable of pretty much everything, it's just annoying at many things and lacking in features you may desire.

The R3 got a price cut ahead of the R4 announcement... if anything, the price may go up a little before it goes down again. Of course, patience is the best and wait till black friday to score a really killer deal, but I'm not TS. I bought the R3 like a week after it came out, and definitely would have got a better deal maybe a few months later, it was hot shopping season, so I had little chances at savings. I'm just saying that renting a foreign body is probably the biggest waste of money, the first few months, the new body does retain pretty good value, you can buy and sell the R4. A mature item like the R3 will not be hit hard by depreciation, however, the R4 will definitely get hit hard in a year or so, while the R3 probably wont.

basically buying gives you much better exploratory options.

Or the A7R4 gets hit hard by the killer EOS R that is coming out in the next 6 months... Then yes, don't even think about renting, go get that A7r4 at a huge discount!

Many years ago, when I was managing a small mass spectrometer business, the new draughtsman came to me complaining that the CAD system we used was no good. It was, in his opinion, too old, lacked features and required too many steps to perform straightforward changes.

I told him that (1) I had no problem with producing good drawings (I was not a trained draughtsman though) and (2) we had no budget for the package he said we needed but would look at it for the next FY.

Some months later, while putting together budgets for the next FY, I asked him to let me have his recommendation and costing. He said he'd changed his mind. Having used our 'no frills' CAD system for a little while, he now loved its simplicity, stability and processing speed, plus he had developed a few workarounds where he needed them. He was still happily using that software six years later when we were bought by a larger company.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18914759
Or the A7R4 gets hit hard by the killer EOS R that is coming out in the next 6 months... Then yes, don't even think about renting, go get that A7r4 at a huge discount!

with Canon's 90D, that 70-80mp canon full frame is coming, I feel it

Too bad they'll cripple the 4K to protect their cinema lineup

Yes unfortunately, that is true. They have already said they are concentrating more on industrial and commercial imaging products going forward. Some of that will trickle down to ILC, but probably slowly, and they won't want to cannibalize across segments.

I cannot believe they can keep making the bridge cameras, I fail to see how that plays a part any longer. If people aren't buying more gear in the ILC space, I fail to see why they would buy a large fixed lens body about the size of a DSLR, when there is a smaller mirrorless available. But they must not cost much to make so as long as they sell, I guess Canon will make them.

Charlie wrote in post #18914754
and want vs need, all of photography at this point is about wants . A 5Div is technically capable of pretty much everything, it's just annoying at many things and lacking in features you may desire.

For some

I earn some income from photography. Aside from a few weddings and portraits, I put a few prints in coast galleries. A couple months ago, a business in northern CA paid $800 for me to get one large 18,000 x 18,000 pixel image (merged) for a 10 ft. x 10 ft. print ( a redwood scene ) Actually, neither the 5DS nor the A7R iv would be able to get that shot in a single image.

Welcome to my office (below)

mdvaden wrote in post #18914797
For some

I earn some income from photography. Aside from a few weddings and portraits, I put a few prints in coast galleries. This afternoon I'm returning an email request for a forest print. And a couple months ago, a business in northern CA paid over $800 for me to get one large 18,000 x 18,000 pixel image (merged) for a 10 ft. x 10 ft. print ( a redwood scene )

Actually, neither the 5DS nor the A7R iv would be able to get that shot in a single image.

A7R4 + pixelshift = 240MB........ or tilt shift. Probably not optimal, but sure as hell better than current options. Maybe look at how peter lik does his prints, many various opinions about the guy and his work, but his large prints are in a league of it's own, absolutely stunning amounts of detail, hard to believe a medium format can capture all that detail. He might be stitching with MF? Some witchcraft going on, his large prints seem like they have more detail than FF small prints, you can stick your nose right up to a 10' wide exhibit, and it's sharp at the pixel level.

I do this pretty often, and works well for most scenes. The issue with some lenses though is that you end up with small areas of multiple flares. Once you get a shooting pattern down, you can whip off several images very quickly, which is key, besides locking in your exposure up front and not letting anything change between all the shots. I can rattle off a set of 12 or so within seconds. You overlap about 1/4 of each frame's sides.

https://petapixel.com …on-photos-with-photoshop/

I have a 40+Mpx beach shot from the gulf from my M50 doing this. It really lets you drill into the final photo. No pixel shifting magic for me, just not needed IMO.

Yep... not to hard to find. And this works fine for smaller prints. But look at the test Tony Northrop did with 240 mpx. The detail blown up was pretty dang amazing. Much more so than I would imagine. The small camera in his shot in the background, you could read the dials and see the knurling on the nobs just as if you shot the camera alone at close range. Not a huge Tony fan... but his test was pretty convincing.

This is a nice image.... but your crop shows how much more detail the 240 mpx could deliver. Using his example, the cut out would be pixelated at all, and you would be able to see roof detail. Not that important for smaller shots... but larger ones (which most of us would never create in reality).... I was impressed. Don't need it myself... but was impressed none the less. I'm sticking with my old stuff for now.

https://youtu.be/3526K​GRuVHo

Nice shot though....

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18914700
I fail to see why buying an A73R is better than renting an A74R with what you listed?

So once again, why not spend $160 for a week with the a74r just to see what it is all about before committing to any kind of shift over to the a73r or a74r? I still haven't really seen a reason for the "no" you replied with on my original reply.

I am certain any reasonably intelligent person could figure out the Sony camera settings and controls within 24-48 hours, and be able to produce great shots and process them within another 24-48 hours, and the remaining time to play with all the different modes before having to send it back on the 7th day.

Many rental places will give you the rental fee as a credit if you buy a camera.

I will say it took me a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time to get use to Sony raw files. I'll say if you go Sony DO NOT go the adaptation route. It's the most economical but personally I REGRET doing it that way. Now that I have some E mount native glass I'll say I'm a happy camper.

Tomorrow I'll be test driving the sony A7r4 at a demo. If I like it I'll just buy it....... Today I was going to buy my A9 that I've been drooling at a "cheap" price of $5600 CDN taxes in The store manager/friend didn't let me buy it LOL!!! Voice of reason was less dynamic range than my A73 and apparently noticeable lower performance in high iso performance and his awareness of my style and needs in photography (disclaimer..... I'm waiting to see what an A9mk2 and A7r4 will look like).

The A7R4 is appealing to me due to the 61 MEGApickles and A9 AF performance. Not sure how the high iso performance will be.

I own the 5d3/5d4 and I just blindly bought the A73. It's like a 5dmk4 but in a sony mirrorless form that seems sharper than my 5dmk4 overall. I liked the A73 so much that I just ran out and bought another

The A7r4 is a camera that will be better than the A7r3. Simply because historically Sony gets better and better on every revision. I just dont care for the high res 61MP with only 1 option of compression raw.

Question a Canon lover should ask is "do you need 61MP"? I'd say test drive a Sony and have fun exploring. The camera overall will be a beast in performance in Sony flavour. I'll comment later as I'll see how it feels. So far I really do not care for the feel of a sony body as a mirrored 5dmk4 feels like a robust piece of hardware. Sony does not feel robust but it's definitely better than the older generation A7 bodies.

Bottom line is experiment with an open mind. I prefer the ergonomics of the "meh" first version EOS R. I'll very likely buy the EOS R mk2 when it comes out. So far my experimentation with Sony has been a steep learning curve but it's been an excellent rewarding journey. If you do not play and ask question on the internet you'll always be lacking the experience.

I'm just fortunate that I'm not into videography. Tomorrow after playing with an A7r4 at the Demo...maybe I'll like it a lot???? We'll see

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18914848
I do this pretty often, and works well for most scenes. The issue with some lenses though is that you end up with small areas of multiple flares. Once you get a shooting pattern down, you can whip off several images very quickly, which is key, besides locking in your exposure up front and not letting anything change between all the shots. I can rattle off a set of 12 or so within seconds. You overlap about 1/4 of each frame's sides.

https://petapixel.com …on-photos-with-photoshop/

I have a 40+Mpx beach shot from the gulf from my M50 doing this. It really lets you drill into the final photo. No pixel shifting magic for me, just not needed IMO.

and that one house... can you find it?

Hosted photo: posted by TeamSpeed in
./showthread.php?p=189​14848&i=i129338318
forum: Camera Vs. Camera

I'm familiar with large prints, you can tell the difference between low and high megapixel prints when the long edge is around 16"

if it's a stunning print, you may not care because it's stunning

@ 4', you have different variations of softness. It could be "Good enough" for you or other folks, you'de have to print large enough to figure this out.

Medium makes a big difference as well, I like high res metal prints. They are easy to hang, dont need framing, and very pretty to view in person. Shooting landscapes with a high MP camera, after you've made the effort to go out and shoot gives you peace of mind that your photo is somewhat future proof or at bare minimum, you gave it good effort. I've had people buy my prints, and I'm only interested in selling very big prints or none at all. Making money with photography is the last thing on my mind, it's just for fun, and if I get a request, then I'll only comply if it's gigantic, not interested in doing small prints for anyone.

of course, if you dont care for that extra crispness, then this camera isnt for you. While a nice print looks good on its own, there is certainly a noticeable difference when higher resolution is involved. One of my best prints of all time, is from a 24mp A7ii..... I dont kid myself about the quality, simply not on par with the R series camera.... but certainly better than not having a camera at all!

mdvaden wrote in post #18914723
Oh .. you're computer will stil let you feel the difference of the bigger files. I've got a custom built computer and surely realized what 5DS files are like. Once I start working on those, I can hear the fans in the case increase and the processing is certainly slower.

Going back to something Teamspeed posted about files sizes, I was curious myself, and someone replied on Amazon, a link to A7R iv specs showing sRAW and mRAW options. On the other hand, it someone chooses, sRAW and mRAW, then why not look at the A7R iii instead.

The pixel shift feature has been shown to be pretty unreliable. So is the rest worth it? Because price deals will probably show up on the older models.

So do you really need 61 megapixels? Do you want a camera that is much slower than the Sony A9 for frame rate? It's certainly worth almost every dollar. How much of it will you get to put to use?

where do you see sRAW and mRAW option for A7r4??? If it has this option I'll just buy it.....