Question > Extenders / Teleconverters RE Aperture, EXIF, pertaining to TILT SHIFT ts-e

I was reading a review, which noted the 90mm 2.8 ts-e tilt shift can work with teleconverters, but the writer said that the aperture, etc., isn't reported to the camera.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com …lt-Shift-Lens-Review.aspx

But he didn't explain how the lens works. Any idea how one would be able to select the aperture if it doesn't report to the body?

mdvaden wrote in post #18922756
I was reading a review, which noted the 90mm 2.8 ts-e tilt shift can work with teleconverters, but the writer said that the aperture, etc., isn't reported to the camera.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com …lt-Shift-Lens-Review.aspx

But he didn't explain how the lens works. Any idea how one would be able to select the aperture if it doesn't report to the body?

If it doesn't report the aperture, it means he uses a teleconverter which does not report any lens info back to the camera.

Personally, I have several (third party) teleconverters and both EF Mk III extenders, and they all report the aperture. Most converters for EF, as with the Canon extenders, report the aperture with the converter/extender multiplication factor (e,g,, with the 1.4x extender an F/4 lens is reported as F/5.6, and it also affects stopping down the same way), but some only pass on the lens info, which means you may be able to trick a camera to AF when it normally would not be able to do so anymore.

If the aperture does not report to the body, you either have to use it wide open, or alternatively, mount the lens, select an aperture, press the aperture preview button, and dismount the lens. That is an old trick to keep the lens at the selected aperture. Should work with any EF lens, including the TS-Es. As mentioned it shouldn't be necessary, however.

HTH, kind regards, Wim

wimg wrote in post #18923094
That is an old trick to keep the lens at the selected aperture. Should work with any EF lens, including the TS-Es. As mentioned it shouldn't be necessary, however.

HTH, kind regards, Wim

Bet that explains why a couple threads I found, like at FredMiranda ... some photographers wrote about using extenders on the tilt shift with nothing unusual mentioned.

mdvaden wrote in post #18923215
Bet that explains why a couple threads I found, like at FredMiranda ... some photographers wrote about using extenders on the tilt shift with nothing unusual mentioned.

Exactly!

I have used my TS-Es (especially 24L I, 45 non-L and 90 non-L) with and without extenders for macro-photography. Since I have both extenders (and owned older versions as well), I see/saw no need to use a 3rd party converter with any of them, as the extenders fit easily.

Kind regards, Wim

I guess the above is clear, but just in case:

1. Canon says the TS-Es are not compatible with extenders only because the TC does not update the lens info - The TC just passes the lens info straight through. The TC's, including vIII's physically fit on at least 17, 24, 45 and 90 (not 100% sure about the newest models, but I would assume so).

2. So you set aperture at f11 and add a 1.4TC, your actual aperture (DOF + light) is f16, but the camera and EXIF all say f11.

3. You set your aperture at f11 and add a 2x TC, your actual aperture (DOF + light) is f22, but the camera and EXIF all say f11.

In both cases there is nothing in the EXIF to say you used a TC. This might also affect any CA, distortion or illumination corrections applied either in-camera or in-software, depending on how they work in that software.

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This topic is interesting to me because I would love to have tilt/shift capabilities, but at focal lengths far beyond anything Canon offers in their tilt/shift lineup. . If I could get the full tilt/shift effect when shooting from 500mm to 800mm, that would help me make much nicer wildlife and bird images.
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ejenner wrote in post #18929180
Canon says the TS-Es are not compatible with extenders only because the TC does not update the lens info - The TC just passes the lens info straight through.

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I find this very odd, because the Canon extenders do pass all of the lens info along when using other Canon lenses. So the extenders are fully capable of passing along lens info. Why, then, would they not do so when mounted to a tilt/shift lens?


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #18929456
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This topic is interesting to me because I would love to have tilt/shift capabilities, but at focal lengths far beyond anything Canon offers in their tilt/shift lineup. . If I could get the full tilt/shift effect when shooting from 500mm to 800mm, that would help me make much nicer wildlife and bird images.
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I find this very odd, because the Canon extenders do pass all of the lens info along when using other Canon lenses. So the extenders are fully capable of passing along lens info. Why, then, would they not do so when mounted to a tilt/shift lens?

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After reading your post, I searched for extenders and tilt shift keywords and spotted a few images, but not much was offered for lens and settings. Someone has a lot of bird photos showing up. I'm guessing more scrolling should reveal something more informational about other folks trying it.

One with the birds that was cool, was looking down at a nest and using the lens to fade feet and part of the nest, leaving attention on the gaping beaks. Doubt it was very fare though and probably fairly close.

I have the 90mm. But with a crop sensor and 2x extender, couldn't a 135mm yield upward of 430mm worth?

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18929456
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This topic is interesting to me because I would love to have tilt/shift capabilities, but at focal lengths far beyond anything Canon offers in their tilt/shift lineup. . If I could get the full tilt/shift effect when shooting from 500mm to 800mm, that would help me make much nicer wildlife and bird images.
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I find this very odd, because the Canon extenders do pass all of the lens info along when using other Canon lenses. So the extenders are fully capable of passing along lens info. Why, then, would they not do so when mounted to a tilt/shift lens?

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Tilt/shift does not work well with very long lenses, as you'd need enormous beasts of lenses, way more than current long teles, in order to enlarge the image circle - TS-E lenses have much larger image circles than standard lenses do in order to be able to shift and tillt without reaching the limit of the image circle. In addition the longer the FL, the less impact a shift or tilt has, you'd have to be able to shift / tilt copious quantities for it to make a difference. Even with the TS-E 90 the options or rather differences are a lot smaller than with e.g. the TS-E 24 or the TS-E 17 with the same amount of tilt and/or shift.

Kind regards, Wim

mdvaden wrote in post #18929495
After reading your post, I searched for extenders and tilt shift keywords and spotted a few images, but not much was offered for lens and settings. Someone has a lot of bird photos showing up. I'm guessing more scrolling should reveal something more informational about other folks trying it.

One with the birds that was cool, was looking down at a nest and using the lens to fade feet and part of the nest, leaving attention on the gaping beaks. Doubt it was very fare though and probably fairly close.

I have the 90mm. But with a crop sensor and 2x extender, couldn't a 135mm yield upward of 430mm worth?

That might certainly work a lot better than a 430 mm TS-E, as the tilt/shift occurs prior to the enlargement of the image field. You do lose a couple of stops as well, however .

Kind regards, Wim

mdvaden wrote in post #18929495
After reading your post, I searched for extenders and tilt shift keywords and spotted a few images, but not much was offered for lens and settings. Someone has a lot of bird photos showing up. I'm guessing more scrolling should reveal something more informational about other folks trying it.

One with the birds that was cool, was looking down at a nest and using the lens to fade feet and part of the nest, leaving attention on the gaping beaks. Doubt it was very fare though and probably fairly close.

I have the 90mm. But with a crop sensor and 2x extender, couldn't a 135mm yield upward of 430mm worth?

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This is the kind of situation I could REALLY use tilt/shift for:

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18929663
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This is the kind of situation I could REALLY use tilt/shift for:

Hosted photo: posted by Tom Reichner in
./showthread.php?p=189​29663&i=i42876795
forum: General Photography Talk

What I want is for the buck and the doe to both be in perfectly sharp focus. . But for everything in front of them and everything behind them to be completely obliterated. . Especially, I would want the vegetation that is immediately next to the doe's neck and chin to be obliterated into nothingness.

I'd really like to be able to capture stuff like this in-camera all the time, and never have to fall back on post processing in order to fabricate scenes to look the way I want them to look.

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No doubt that a T/S would help here however, you would have to be pre-setup for the shot as a T/S lens is not something you can dial in quickly and you would be tracking focus manually at the same time. What you need is something like the light field (Lytro cameras) Which capture multiple focal planes at the same time allowing you to pull in the plane you want after the shot is taken. However, none of their cameras are over 250mm yet and the company sort of evaporated. Some mobiles are beginning to use light field tech though but not at 500mm

gjl711 wrote in post #18929681
No doubt that a T/S would help here however, you would have to be pre-setup for the shot as a T/S lens is not something you can dial in quickly and you would be tracking focus manually at the same time.

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Bummer. . I suspected that would be the case.

What we need are cameras that are capable of adjusting the tilt and shift lenses rapidly, on the fly. . The same way cameras drive autofocus to rapidly move the elements within a lens, there could be cameras that just as rapidly move the tilt and shift mechanisms into position.

The way it would work is that you program into the camera the things that you want to be in perfect focus. . In this case, it would be the buck's head and the doe's head. . Then the camera's computers would know what two things I want to use to set the focus plane, and would electronically move the lens around to get the tilt and shift perfectly adjusted on the fly, and continue to adjust as I track the running deer - the same way that autofocus continues to adjust as we track rapidly moving subjects.

Many people say things like, "Todays cameras are so advanced .... what more could we possibly need cameras to do?"

I cannot understand that mindset. . There are hundreds - if not thousands - of things that cameras could do for us that they aren't doing now. . Really important things that are the difference between getting every shot we ever wanted and missing a shot altogether.


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wimg wrote in post #18929572
Tilt/shift does not work well with very long lenses, as you'd need enormous beasts of lenses, way more than current long teles, in order to enlarge the image circle - TS-E lenses have much larger image circles than standard lenses do in order to be able to shift and tillt without reaching the limit of the image circle. In addition the longer the FL, the less impact a shift or tilt has, you'd have to be able to shift / tilt copious quantities for it to make a difference. Even with the TS-E 90 the options or rather differences are a lot smaller than with e.g. the TS-E 24 or the TS-E 17 with the same amount of tilt and/or shift.

Kind regards, Wim

There's no reason to limit your thinking to 'full frame' 35mm sensors.
A tilt shift adapter could be made to use Canon EF lenses on Canon M bodies. That would be easiest and have most chance of success as it would be Canon body communicating with Canon lens.
The tilt and shift range would be more limited compared to current TS-E lenses but some range beats none.
This would be a full featured adaption, AF, Aperture, IS.

A similar adapter made for Micro Four Thirds bodies would allow more Tilt and Shift range.

Using an older Tele lens such as Pentax 400 f4 6X7 could be adapted to Full frame 35mm allowing much larger Tilt Shift range.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18929687
The way it would work is that you program into the camera the things that you want to be in perfect focus. In this case, it would be the buck's head and the doe's head. Then the camera's computers would know what two things I want to use to set the focus plane, and would electronically move the lens around to get the tilt and shift perfectly adjusted on the fly, and continue to adjust as I track the running deer - the same way that autofocus continues to adjust as we track rapidly moving subjects.

The day they unveil this camera is the day I give up photography. Might as well just tell a computer what you want and have it print a photo realistic image for you without you having to get out of your chair.

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18929831
The day they unveil this camera is the day I give up photography. Might as well just tell a computer what you want and have it print a photo realistic image for you without you having to get out of your chair.

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No, that is completely wrong, Dan.

No matter what a camera is capable of, the photographer still has to travel hundreds or thousands of miles to go to where the deer life, understand the timing of the rut, find the deer, and get into position so as to capture the action from a pleasing angle that also aligns with the direction that the sunlight is coming from.

I am so tired of people like you saying that if a camera can do this, or do that, that then the photographer won't have to do anything at all. . That is rubbish. . Just getting the camera where it needs to be requires a depth of understanding of the lifecycle of the animal one is photographing, as well as days of arduous travel in order to get there at the right time of year. . Absolutely extreme sacrifices made by the photographer.

Focusing and firing of the camera is just a wee tiny little part of the photographic process. . A Mule Deer doe comes into heat for just 48 hours every year. . Traveling for days to find a doe that is in heat, and being pursued by a fully mature buck, is a huge accomplishment. . Not to mention anticipating the course of their chase and setting ones self up in a spot to intercept the chase and have the light shining favorably upon the deer. . And yet you spin some rubbish about not getting out of one's chair. . Damn that mindset.

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