-= 90D owners unite! Discuss and Post Photos

DreDaze wrote in post #19121188
yeah, it was a bit hard to get the camera on them...i had my 500mm + 2X + 1.4X

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/2jDN​SXk p-week36_20_0262 by andre gregoire, on Flickr

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/2jDP​LrZ p-week36_20_0269 by andre gregoire, on Flickr

and the moon pretending to be mars

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/2jDP​Lha p-week36_20_0233 by andre gregoire, on Flickr

All excellent shots! Especially the one showing the moon looking like Mars!! Since you have Mars in the top of the image that MUST be what changed the color of the moon correct??

Inspeqtor wrote in post #19121323
All excellent shots! Especially the one showing the moon looking like Mars!! Since you have Mars in the top of the image that MUST be what changed the color of the moon correct??

haha...i was going to post that to instagram with a caption like "when you do an impersonation of someone, and they are standing right over your shoulder watching"...unfortunat​ely, it's due to all the smoke from california fires

DreDaze wrote in post #19121387
haha...i was going to post that to instagram with a caption like "when you do an impersonation of someone, and they are standing right over your shoulder watching"...unfortunat​ely, it's due to all the smoke from california fires

Sorry to hear the color change is from the fires....

More AF problems, but at least this is different! NOTE: this is NOT hand-held birds in flight photography, the camera is on a support and aimed at a perch as the birds approach.

The Acorn Woodpeckers approach a perch mostly from the rear at an angle and from the sides.Trying various AF settings and techniques, I got very poor performance from my 90d. This is what it's supposed to be good at.

First, using the maximum number of AF points and including the perch in AF area, in full sun at f/8, ISO 800, 1/2000 sec with EF300/2.8ii and with or without 1.4x, not a single frame of some hundred locked onto the bird(s). Instead AF stayed on one end of the perch where I'd pre-focused even though the birds are bright black and white, so should be preferred targets for AF.

By starting to make exposures as soon as I saw a bird heading toward the perch, I'd run the camera at the highest frame rate with the optical VF and with the slightly higher rate in LiveView, clicking-off 3 to 10 frames continuously. The birds do approach fast and I only have a couple of seconds, at most, to make images each time. There are between 6 and 10 of the woodpeckers around in that area coming to a water supply, so I have lots of opportunities.

Next, I tried the same as above along with an EF600/4ii, pre-focusing just behind the perch in the direction of the bird's approach and still didn't get any in-focus images of the birds. In fact, AF didn't seem to be responding to the birds at all. Oh, and in all cases I had the lens'AF limit switch set to the close range to avoid picking up distant background objects.

I also tried different AF sensor point selection choices, but none worked any better and I gave up and just set manual focus on the perch and hoped - that did produce a handful of several hundred frames that were nearly focused and one or two that were good.

Lastly, I noticed that, if the pre-focus was slightly in front of the perch, the camera did not respond to the perch in the frame at all. Only when pre-focus was behind the perch did the AF respond and focus on the perch.

I know that if I call Canon, they'll tell me to send the camera and both lenses and all my converters in for repair/testing and I don't really want to do that for the third time this year.

So, do any of you use this kind of technique on birds and are you having normal success getting critically sharp images?

Thanks for any help,

Frank

FrankKolwicz wrote in post #19122246
More AF problems, but at least this is different!

Thanks for any help,

Frank

Frank,
How many feet away from the perch are you?
Dave
And a photo of bird at perch full frame if possible.

FrankKolwicz wrote in post #19122246
More AF problems, but at least this is different! NOTE: this is NOT hand-held birds in flight photography, the camera is on a support and aimed at a perch as the birds approach.

The Acorn Woodpeckers approach a perch mostly from the rear at an angle and from the sides.Trying various AF settings and techniques, I got very poor performance from my 90d. This is what it's supposed to be good at.

First, using the maximum number of AF points and including the perch in AF area, in full sun at f/8, ISO 800, 1/2000 sec with EF300/2.8ii and with or without 1.4x, not a single frame of some hundred locked onto the bird(s). Instead AF stayed on one end of the perch where I'd pre-focused even though the birds are bright black and white, so should be preferred targets for AF.

By starting to make exposures as soon as I saw a bird heading toward the perch, I'd run the camera at the highest frame rate with the optical VF and with the slightly higher rate in LiveView, clicking-off 3 to 10 frames continuously. The birds do approach fast and I only have a couple of seconds, at most, to make images each time. There are between 6 and 10 of the woodpeckers around in that area coming to a water supply, so I have lots of opportunities.

Next, I tried the same as above along with an EF600/4ii, pre-focusing just behind the perch in the direction of the bird's approach and still didn't get any in-focus images of the birds. In fact, AF didn't seem to be responding to the birds at all. Oh, and in all cases I had the lens'AF limit switch set to the close range to avoid picking up distant background objects.

I also tried different AF sensor point selection choices, but none worked any better and I gave up and just set manual focus on the perch and hoped - that did produce a handful of several hundred frames that were nearly focused and one or two that were good.

Lastly, I noticed that, if the pre-focus was slightly in front of the perch, the camera did not respond to the perch in the frame at all. Only when pre-focus was behind the perch did the AF respond and focus on the perch.

I know that if I call Canon, they'll tell me to send the camera and both lenses and all my converters in for repair/testing and I don't really want to do that for the third time this year.

So, do any of you use this kind of technique on birds and are you having normal success getting critically sharp images?

Thanks for any help,

Frank

Maybe a stupid question, but does the 90D focus for each frame at the high framerate, or just for the first frame? I think to remember that some cameras only focus for each frame at the lower framerate.

Klaus

KlausM wrote in post #19122482
Maybe a stupid question, but does the 90D focus for each frame at the high framerate, or just for the first frame? I think to remember that some cameras only focus for each frame at the lower framerate.

Klaus

That's what differentiates "One Shot" and "AIServo"; AIServo keeps looking at focus needs during a burst, and One Shot doesn't (the other major difference is that focus does not lock in AIServo, so re-composing with single-point is impossible). How well the 90D, specifically, figures out focus needs between shots, however, seems to be fairly poor, with the larger AF point zones.

In my estimation, you also lose a fraction of burst frames to mirror slap in OVF mode, with marginal shutter speeds that would be fine in electronic first curtain mode in Live View.

Dave63401 wrote in post #19122265
Frank,
How many feet away from the perch are you?
Dave
And a photo of bird at perch full frame if possible.

Dave,

I don't have a photo handy, but let's see if I can deduce what you are looking for in the mean time: the perch is about 25 to 30 feet from me, well within the 20 to 50 feet lens's range limitation; atmospheric disturbance is not causing the poor focus results - there are areas of the perch that are in critically sharp focus, but not the birds.

I can pick out an image file later today, if you have a different question about location and conditions.

Frank

John Sheehy wrote in post #19122490
{SNIP}
In my estimation, you also lose a fraction of burst frames to mirror slap in OVF mode, with marginal shutter speeds that would be fine in electronic first curtain mode in Live View.

John, I've often noted that the first image file of a burst sequence is likely to be sharper than most of the subsequent frames, although that's not always true and sometimes I get whole sections of sequences that are good and sometimes none. I've attributed that to the random effects of atmospheric distortion, even at close ranges, because of the high magnification I use most of the time, but mirror bounce vibration has come to mind, too.

FrankKolwicz wrote in post #19122644
Dave,

I don't have a photo handy, but let's see if I can deduce what you are looking for in the mean time: the perch is about 25 to 30 feet from me, well within the 20 to 50 feet lens's range limitation; atmospheric disturbance is not causing the poor focus results - there are areas of the perch that are in critically sharp focus, but not the birds.

I can pick out an image file later today, if you have a different question about location and conditions.

Frank

Frank,
I "might" have an answer for you. On my 300mm F2.8 MkII, the 3 ranges on the auto focus are Full(6.6 to infinity), close, which is what you said you are using, is 6.6ft to 19.7ft, and longer, which is 19.7ft to infinity. I got these from the Canon factory manual , pg. 6. So if it is 25-30feet away, it is out of the range of the autofocus when set in close range.
I also have struggled with birds in flight with this combo on my 90D along with my other cameras. A while back I started experimenting with the camera setting where it will not take a shot until focus is achieved. I have had better luck with that and more % in focus. I used it on a Clearwing Hummingbird Moth (100mm lens)with very good results, but it was strange with the little lag on occasion until I got things lined up and got focus. That did not happen every shot. I have not had a chance for full size birds much to prove out this method.
HTH, Dave
PS: I was wanting the photo to see the relation of the perch to the incoming bird. If I understand correctly, it will most always focus on the nearest thing inside the focus group.

Thanks, Dave,

You may just have found a brain fade of mine. I was thinking of the range of my 600/4, which is my standard lens, instead of the 300/2.8!

I had a lot of trouble with the lens snapping to focus on the distant background as the bird went in and out of the AF sensor area, so I tried setting the limiter, but with the 600's range in mind.

That's a great bid DUH!

By the way, the birds were coming in from many directions, but I want to capture one or more approaching toward me. And I do only use shutter actuation on focus for the first and subsequent frames - sharpness matters - for me.

Thanks again,

Frank

Well, it may have been a great big DUH! on my part, but, after correcting that, there's now a DUH on the camera's part, too. It's still not AFing on birds coming to the perch, whether they are coming from the back or anywhere else.

To recap: 90d, 300/2.8, 1/1000sec, ISO 1600 or less , f/5.6 or so, perch at about 25 to 30 feet, all AF points selected (full area), AF range set to FULL. The camera is on a mount and I use a cable release; the perch, itself, is near the bottom of the AF area and the camera AF will lock on it. When a bird is first seen approaching the perch I start a high speed shutter sequence using the optical VF, not LiveView and run 3 to 10 frames in a sequence. The AF settings are set to give the fastest tracking and AF actuation. Most of the time, the birds are approaching from the left rear, so crossing the AF area to the middle. There are frames with the bird on the far left, mid-left and center, so a perfect sequence crossing part of the AF area. The only sharp frames are with the bird settled on the perch.

NONE of the frames with the bif approaching the perch was sharp, although the perch itself remains so, as it was at the start of the sequence. The bird is black and white, mostly, is much larger than the perch and in the same light. In some of the frames the bird is almost at a stall, just before touching-down, so speed should not be an issue at 1/1000 sec.; wing tips, sure, but not the head and body.

For my next tests, I'm thinking of using a single or small group of AF points just above the perch. When I do so, the camera AFs onto the background and will have to pull forward when the bird is in it. That doesn't seem like a recipe for success, but, maybe.

Frank,
Doesn't the camera always focus on the closest object in the area of the autofocus group? So if the perch is closer but within the group that is what it would focus on.
Dave

If the light is good, I think I would try f/8, at least 1/2000 or higher shutter and auto ISO and see what happens.

FrankKolwicz wrote in post #19124595
Well, it may have been a great big DUH! on my part, but, after correcting that, there's now a DUH on the camera's part, too. It's still not AFing on birds coming to the perch, whether they are coming from the back or anywhere else.

To recap: 90d, 300/2.8, 1/1000sec, ISO 1600 or less , f/5.6 or so, perch at about 25 to 30 feet, all AF points selected (full area), AF range set to FULL. The camera is on a mount and I use a cable release; the perch, itself, is near the bottom of the AF area and the camera AF will lock on it. When a bird is first seen approaching the perch I start a high speed shutter sequence using the optical VF, not LiveView and run 3 to 10 frames in a sequence. The AF settings are set to give the fastest tracking and AF actuation. Most of the time, the birds are approaching from the left rear, so crossing the AF area to the middle. There are frames with the bird on the far left, mid-left and center, so a perfect sequence crossing part of the AF area. The only sharp frames are with the bird settled on the perch.

NONE of the frames with the bif approaching the perch was sharp, although the perch itself remains so, as it was at the start of the sequence. The bird is black and white, mostly, is much larger than the perch and in the same light. In some of the frames the bird is almost at a stall, just before touching-down, so speed should not be an issue at 1/1000 sec.; wing tips, sure, but not the head and body.

For my next tests, I'm thinking of using a single or small group of AF points just above the perch. When I do so, the camera AFs onto the background and will have to pull forward when the bird is in it. That doesn't seem like a recipe for success, but, maybe.

From the way I understand all points AF to work, and from experience with other Canon Bodies what you are trying to achieve is highly unlikely to ever work as there is no reason for the camera to jump focus off the perch to a point further away.