-= 90D owners unite! Discuss and Post Photos

huntersdad wrote in post #18927723
So, kids, reading comprehension is super important. And this is the second time Canon has gotten me on this.

The 90d burst rate in LV is 11 fps, which I believe it is hitting.

The burst rate in VF is 10fps - if you are in ONE SHOT. When you go to Servo, the frame rate drops to a max of 7, which explains what I was seeing.

Canon got me on the EOS R doing the same thing, stating a burst of 8FPS, when it's really 5FPS if tracking isn't important or 3FPS if it is.

Mental note made, I won't make this mistake again.

Looks like, while Canon is not misrepresenting the facts they are using terms that make it easy to misinterpret the facts. Guess they've put a lawyer in charge of the PR department. Disappointing they have to resort to head games to boost sales.

Think I'll hold onto my money for a while.

Rod

The 90D manual states that 10 frames per second is the maximum in VF operation, and then mentions many factors that can affect the speed, including battery level, shutter speed, IS on or off, aperture, subject conditions, AF operation, and several more. So the question is what a frame rate would be in typical high speed use, and the results of huntersdad indicate it is around 7 f/s.

Archibald wrote in post #18927821
The 90D manual states that 10 frames per second is the maximum in VF operation, and then mentions many factors that can affect the speed, including battery level, shutter speed, IS on or off, aperture, subject conditions, AF operation, and several more. So the question is what a frame rate would be in typical high speed use, and the results of huntersdad indicate it is around 7 f/s.

Does anyone know how does this finding compare with 7D II? Any 7D II users?

SYS wrote in post #18927850
Does anyone know how does this finding compare with 7D II? Any 7D II users?

I've never timed my shutter speed, but use AI Servo quite a bit and the 7Dii sounds like a happy little machine gun most of the time. Occasionally in tricky lighting where I guess focusing on a moving object might be tough, it can slow a little. But I always shoot with a grip so I've never had a battery issue slowing down the fps. I love my 7Dii, I just wanted a slightly better sensor, happy with pretty much everything else on it.

If the frame rate on the 90D can drop in good conditions, then I guess the 90D isn't for me

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #18927854
I've never timed my shutter speed, but use AI Servo quite a bit and the 7Dii sounds like a happy little machine gun most of the time. Occasionally in tricky lighting where I guess focusing on a moving object might be tough, it can slow a little. But I always shoot with a grip so I've never had a battery issue slowing down the fps. I love my 7Dii, I just wanted a slightly better sensor, happy with pretty much everything else on it.

If the frame rate on the 90D can drop in good conditions, then I guess the 90D isn't for me

7 fps isn't too bad. A bit better than my 5D IV. I do more bird "portraits" than BIF, so it's not a huge issue for me. I've been debating between 7D II and 90D. I just couldn't settle for the 7D II sensor in today's age.... I need that extra reach with croppability without sacrificing much IQ.

Astoria wrote in post #18927749
Huntersdad, in reading your last post, I am to assume as I shoot in AI servo all the time for BIF/wildlife, I will only achieve 7 fps? I never shoot in ONE SHOT. It would appear this camera is not what I am looking for if that is the case

Yes. This was verified with CPS.

huntersdad wrote in post #18927723
So, kids, reading comprehension is super important. And this is the second time Canon has gotten me on this.

The 90d burst rate in LV is 11 fps, which I believe it is hitting.

The burst rate in VF is 10fps - if you are in ONE SHOT. When you go to Servo, the frame rate drops to a max of 7, which explains what I was seeing.

Canon got me on the EOS R doing the same thing, stating a burst of 8FPS, when it's really 5FPS if tracking isn't important or 3FPS if it is.

No, Canon is pretty clear that in OVF shooting the max burst rate achievable is 10 fps no matter the AF mode. In Live View the specified maximum frame rate is 11 fps in One Shot and 7 fps in Servo AF. But many things affect the burst rate in practice, including battery charge, lens AF speed, ISO value, whether High ISO Noise Reduction is enabled (even when shooting RAWs!), and so on. Of course it also matters whether AI Servo 2nd image priority is set to equal, speed, or focus.

SYS wrote in post #18927850
Does anyone know how does this finding compare with 7D II? Any 7D II users?

At the end of July I shot the Blue Angels 2 days with my 7D2 and the 3rd day with my 6D2. The frame rate of the 7D2 was noticeably faster then the 6D2 at 6.5fps. It was not scientific but I did partially miss the crossover with the 6, whereas the 7 got it. For BIF, I shoot a lot of eagles and hawks, and the addt’l 3fps of the 7D2 is also noticeable.

I need to think longer about the 90D. The flip touch screen is important and something I would like to have on a crop body again, and the lighter weight is another attractive factor. With a some now questions around FPS, will need to wait for more info on that, pulse AF performance and higher noise handling to see if the change is worthwhile.

Sharlin wrote in post #18927862
No, Canon is pretty clear that in OVF shooting the max burst rate achievable is 10 fps no matter the AF mode. In Live View the specified maximum frame rate is 11 fps in One Shot and 7 fps in Servo AF. But many things affect the burst rate in practice, including battery charge, lens AF speed, ISO value, whether High ISO Noise Reduction is enabled (even when shooting RAWs!), and so on. Of course it also matters whether AI Servo 2nd image priority is set to equal, speed, or focus.

Just so I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that 90D can VF shoot 10 fps max burst EVEN IN SERVO MODE, and not confined to ONE SHOT MODE, right?

I will say this.

Per CPS and per the manual, LV FPS is up to 11, regardless of mode. However, OVF is 10 IF AND ONLY IF you are using One Shot. When you switch to Servo, it tops out at 7FPS. I believe in the manual it is somewhere around page 150-155 where this is discussed. In fact, when you look through the OVF while focusing, in the lower right corner, you see the burst. Mine never got higher than 22 which is inline with the stated rate. (Side note: in testing this frame rate, we hit the buffer around 3 seconds).

When I returned the camera, the store owner actually tested it with me and saw the same thing. He then called his Canon rep to verify we weren't doing something wrong. His rep indicated that what we were seeing was 100% accurate and that they have complained to corporate that for 15 years, "frame rate has always been stated as the maximum amount of frames you can achieve per second when using Servo".

If you look at the 90D and then go back to the release of the R/RP, the stated frame rates are the maximum achievable in LV and in One Shot, but that part isn't getting mentioned. In considering the 90d, I watched several videos and nowhere did anyone mention or hint that there was a lower frame rate when you use the viewfinder. In fact, everyone stated that this is a 10fps camera, which it both is and is not.

Is Canon doing anything illegal? No. Misleading and shady? I guess that depends on your view point and what you think about mixing truth with the past.

Personally, I took a long and very hard look at Sony and will likely be switching as I consider this to be extremely shady.

SYS wrote in post #18927868
Just so I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that 90D can VF shoot 10 fps max burst EVEN IN SERVO MODE, and not confined to ONE SHOT MODE, right?

NO, IT CANNOT. Per CPS, Canon rep and testing, if you are in Servo mode in the OVF, you are limited to 7fps. I did not really test LV as it would be impossible IMO to shoot sports in LV. Or I may just not be that talented.

SYS wrote in post #18927868
Just so I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that 90D can VF shoot 10 fps max burst EVEN IN SERVO MODE, and not confined to ONE SHOT MODE, right?

Yes, according to Canon, anyway. They give a single 10 fps figure for OVF shooting, and separate figures for ONE SHOT and SERVO AF in Live View mode. But like with all cameras, the max practically achievable burst rate depends on how much the camera has to work to maintain the focus between frames. If you set 2nd image priority to "speed" you should in most cases get the full 10 fps, at the expense of possibly having more frames out of focus. It may be that the 90D frame rate drops more often in challenging conditions than, say the 7D2's.

For a definitive source, here's Rudy Winston from Canon USA:

(emphasis mine.)

Sharlin wrote in post #18927879
Yes, according to Canon, anyway. They give a single 10 fps figure for OVF shooting, and separate figures for ONE SHOT and SERVO AF in Live View mode. But like with all cameras, the max practically achievable burst rate depends on how much the camera has to work to maintain the focus between frames. If you set 2nd image priority to "speed" you should in most cases get the full 10 fps, at the expense of possibly having more frames out of focus. It may be that the 90D frame rate drops more often in challenging conditions than, say the 7D2's.

For a definitive source, here's Rudy Winston from Canon USA:

(emphasis mine.)

That's interesting because CPS told me this morning that is limited at 7fps in Servo, which is what the manual shows for Servo. It didn't mention anything about about the priority.

huntersdad wrote in post #18927874
I will say this.

Per CPS and per the manual, LV FPS is up to 11, regardless of mode. However, OVF is 10 IF AND ONLY IF you are using One Shot. When you switch to Servo, it tops out at 7FPS.

No. You got it backwards. OVF FPS is at most 10 with either ONE SHOT or AI SERVO. LV FPS is at most 11 fps with ONE SHOT and 7 fps with SERVO AF.

The EOS 90D Advanced User Guide, p. 150:

The EOS 90D Supplemental Information booklet, p. 20:

This is what the 90D manual says:

"High-speed continuous shooting: When you hold down the shutter button completely, you can shoot continuously at max. approx. 10 shots/sec. in viewfinder shooting or 11 shots/sec. in Live View shooting while you keep holding it down. When the AF operation is set to [Servo AF], in Live View shooting, the continuous shooting speed will be max. approx. 7.0 shots/sec."

I can only read this manual statement to mean that approx. 10 shots/sec. in VF shooting is irregardless of the AF mode, and that 7 shots/sec. only applies when shooting in LV in Servo mode.

If huntersdad is correct, then this is extremely misleading!