"professional" photographer?

Hi guys, I don't want this to be a thread that's too long to read so try and keep the answers fairly short please.

Who is a professional photographer? and how did you start?

See the links in this: General Info

The topic posted is equivalent to "is FF better than crop" or "high resolution sensor vs low?" or "Sony vs Canon" or "BBF vs shutter focusing". You cannot expect this to not spiral out of control and be short and sweet.

It seemed clear to me that he was not asking for a debate on what makes a pro, he was asking for any forum professional photographers to post there stories.

leonfoto wrote in post #18943633
Who is a professional photographer? and how did you start?

Perhaps if it had read "Who here is a professional photographer? and how did you start?"

leonfoto wrote in post #18943633
Hi guys, I don't want this to be a thread that's too long to read so try and keep the answers fairly short please.

Who is a professional photographer? and how did you start?

I don't know if I'm a pro or not. . That would depend on what definition of "professional" one is going by (there are many definitions of the term that are all just as accurate and valid as the others). . But over the past 10 years I have made more of my income from selling photo rights than I have via any other endeavor, so according to some, that would qualify me as a pro.

I specialize in wildlife photography, and that is where is 98% of my photography-derived income has come from.

I started learning wildlife photography by going to the local zoos day after day after day, and photographing the same animals in the same cages over and over and over again. . I tried as hard as I could to get better. . I would get home at night and download the photos and scrutinize them to death, trying to figure out how I could improve the results. . Then the next day I would be back at one of the zoos, putting my theories into practice and seeing if I had gotten any better. . I spent so much time at this for months that it was like a full time job for me.

While I was still working on my craft, I decided to move out west so that I could be closer to the kinds of animals that I really wanted to photograph. . So I sold my condo and drove out to Washington state and stayed in a friend's basement. . I spend tons and tons of time driving and hiking out in the remote areas looking for animals to photograph. . I took many road trips to neighboring states to photograph the animals there. . I was obsessed. . Photographing wildlife was pretty much the only thing in life that I really cared about (this is still the case).

After a couple of years I had amassed a fair amount of half decent wildlife photos, so I started to contact magazines that specialized in that type of content. . The magazine Editor or Art Director would send me submission guidelines, and I learned that submitting images to a publication is a lot different than just making photos for myself, to "look good".

The magazine and calendar companies I submitted to had very stringent guidelines, and if you didn't follow every single little rule then they discarded your submission and wouldn't even consider it. . No cropping. . No noise reduction. . No editing at all. . They demanded unedited files with no manipulations whatsoever. . The reasoning is that they pay a salary to an Art Director or a Graphic Artist/Designer, and they want their professional staff to be the ones editing the photos. . So this taught me something - the importance of getting it as perfect as possible in the camera, and not relying on any post processing skills or techniques.

Eventually I had some success with the magazines, as they started to accept a photo here and a photo there. . Back then (2008/2009) one could get half decent money for a photo to be used in a magazine or on a calendar. . I thought that I was on the right path to a steady, albeit lowly, income. . I would just continue to submit more photos to more magazines, and eventually I thought that these usage sales would reach a sustainable level.

But they never did reach a sustainable level. . This is because there was a big change in the photo license usage market. . The demand was increasing little by little, but the supply of such images was increasing rapidly. . In other words, there were now a whole lot of people trying to do exactly what I was doing. . Most publications abandoned working with individual photographers and started to get their images from massive stock libraries. . This was much easier and less time consuming for them, and somewhat less expensive. . I still made the occasional direct sale to a publication or to an advertising agency, but these sales were decreasing, instead of increasing, despite the fact that I was putting more time and effort into it.

So I changed along with the market and started to submit images to some of the macrostock and microstock agencies.

The agencies' demands for technical perfection were absolutely extreme. . I would see photos posted to forums such as this one that everybody thought were "great", take a closer look, and think to myself, "that photo wouldn't have a chance in hell of ever making it through the quality control process at a stock agency." . This again forced me to work on my craft even more if I was ever to have any success selling through the agencies.

Stock agency sales were terrible for me at first, but over the years I continued to submit more and more images, and eventually I had enough quality content available through the agencies that the monthly royalties got up to a level that wasn't too bad. . All those years of extreme effort was actually resulting in some consistent income. . Woo hoo!

I am still at this level where the stock agency royalties provide enough income for me to survive, when combined with income that I get from other seasonal work. . I need the photography income AND the other income in order to survive, financially. . I couldn't do without either of them.

To be honest, if I worked harder at the business end of photography, I could make a lot more than I do now. . I could submit thousands of additional photos to the agencies, and make more commissions off of those images. . But I am kind of lazy and prefer to do things that are enjoyable at the moment instead of doing things that will earn me money. . A lot of my time is spent road-tripping to take photos of wildlife, but then I never get around to submitting the photos to anyone, and just like looking at them on my computer. . Or I spend day after day just surfing the internet, looking up stuff that I am interested in and chatting away on forums like this one.

I honestly don't enjoy submitting photos to magazines or to stock agencies because it requires my mind to focus and concentrate, and I just like to let my mind wander instead. . It is easier and more enjoyable. . My brain likes to go to "happy places" and think about wildlife and travel and good food and football and pretty girls, and I like to just let it go to these places and think about these things, instead of making it work hard at something like preparing photo submissions. . So I make less than half of what I could be making. . But I am happy, and that is more important to me.

The one thing I do work VERY hard at is the actual photography itself - both the research beforehand and the outings afield. . I work my ass off doing research because it is so interesting to me that my mind just pays sharp attention to everything, without me having to make it pay attention. . In fact, wildlife and travel reearch is one of the happy plaes that my brain likes to go to anyway, so it isn't any effort to do the research. . So, it is indeed, 'work", but it is work that does not take any "effort". . Meaning that I just do what I feel like doing, but that happens to be work in this case. . Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, that is how I started my endeavors into 'professional' wildlife photography. . It kinda works for me, but obviously it would never work for someone who has financial obligations that they have to meet, or someone who has a family or something like that. . If it's just you and you don't have to be accountable to anybody for anything, then it's a somewhat viable career path because it lets you have freedom to do what you feel like most of the time.

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I am in awe of anyone who can make ANY money out of photography. I admire their technical skills and their business acumen.

The closest I have come is by printing one of my owl shots off on canvass so that one of my wife’s friends could hang it on her office wall .... and I did that at MY cost. Duh!!!

I'll be first to go OT

Though I have made money from photography in the past, I deliberately choose NOT to do so today. This is because, now retired from paid photography AND my 'day job', I don't want money to influence what I do, or when - or if I do it at all!

Maybe it's just me, but with payment comes expectations, and that is the absolute worst situation for me. It robs all the enjoyment out of photography and I start to second-guess myself, trying to see things the way the 'client' does. Then there are deadlines and scary moments when the required shot doesn't work out.

I worked as a model for a dozen years, traveled overseas and a friend asked if I was interested in shooting. After testing models for a year, I was contacted by a photographer that shot for Time, People, ESPN and more about assisting. I worked with him for four years and he encouraged me to pursue my own work. It all started twenty-five years ago and there’s always something new to learn.

I am a paid photographer, don't know if that makes me a pro or not, but I get requests all the time that I turn down, since my niche is sports, family/seniors and charity event shoots.

I am currently being sought after to shoot a wedding, and that is one area in which I am extremely uncomfortable. I love being the second shooter, no stress really, but the primary... that scares me a bit. I have yet to give an answer to this last request, perhaps it's time to bite the bullet (already have my LLC for this type of work) and start doing those events. If I turn it down, it will probably be the 5th wedding I have turned down as a primary shooter. I feel a pro wouldn't be stressed out about such things as I am.

Spencerphoto wrote in post #18944374
Though I have made money from photography in the past, I deliberately choose NOT to do so today. This is because... I don't want money to influence what I do.

That's where I'm at. My feeling is that if I had to chase the dollar, I wouldn't like it any more. People have asked me if I'm a pro. I answer no. My rule is one used by many photo contests: you're a pro if you make more than half your income from it. I take paying shoots from time to time, usually at the recommendation of a friend. But that's it. I had a shoot last week for a lady who makes quilts and writes poetry. She wanted professional shots of her quilts. She was happy with the result. That was enjoyable for all. On the other hand, If I had to pound the streets looking for clients....

So I'm just a rank amateur and proud of it, goldarnit.

I recently signed a contract with a gallery, so if someone else thinks they can make money for both of us by selling my photos, does that make me a professional?

I have made money as a photographer. My interest goes back to childhood, for my Dad was a Pulitzer winning photojournalist for a major newspaper. Started shooting and learned dark room techniques in HS. As an art director for ad agencies, photography on an as needed basis was part of my salary. Later, as an employee in a corporate art department, that newfangled digital photography was a major part of my salaried job responsibilities. As an independent contractor, I still shoot for both corporate and personal clients. I'm still getting started. Someday I'll be famous.
: \

i received a very healthy scholarship to be the photo editor of my college newspaper that by default meant chief photographer. my work for Gannett was reimbursement of events and gas money. since the per mile rate was greater than what i cost me in gas, i made out. then just shy of 8 years in the Air Force as a photographer and graphic artist.

those were all sort of paid gigs. now days, i mostly shoot on spec and make a little bit of coin, selling prints through zenfolio.

i am VERY PROFESSIONAL in my demeanor, conduct, and delivery of a more than adequate product. id like to think im a professional (noun) and not just professional (adjective)...

moose10101 wrote in post #18945021
I recently signed a contract with a gallery, so if someone else thinks they can make money for both of us by selling my photos, does that make me a professional?

Or an artist?

That opens another can of worms. Who is an artist?

Good luck with this gig.

I've spoken to gallery owners. Photos as art are a hard sell. People look at the price tags. If it's lower than they expect, they think it has no value. If it's higher, they say, "It's only a photograph. I could take it with my iPhone if I wanted to." They're wrong, of course, but that doesn't stop them. The Thomas Kinkades and Peter Liks of the world probably spend most of their time in marketing. But if you hit the sweet spot, you're in.

joedlh wrote in post #18945284
I've spoken to gallery owners. Photos as art are a hard sell. People look at the price tags. If it's lower than they expect, they think it has no value. If it's higher, they say, "It's only a photograph. I could take it with my iPhone if I wanted to." They're wrong, of course, but that doesn't stop them. The Thomas Kinkades and Peter Liks of the world probably spend most of their time in marketing. But if you hit the sweet spot, you're in.

I've spoken to some owners of small galleries, and as you learned, they weren't interested in photography because "it won't sell". But they seemed more focused on selling inexpensive prints, postcards, etc. of the artworks than anything, so they won't bring in the people who might buy my stuff. I appreciated their honesty; no sense in wasting everyone's time.

The gallery I signed with is perfect for the kind of work I do, and they don't deal with "reproductions", just the original artworks. They've been open for just over a year, and seem to have been quite successful. So if it doesn't sell there ...

And I'm not touching the "artist" question.