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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 22 Dec 2019 (Sunday) 20:45
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Lifelong Canon User Considering Nikon or Sony

 
MrChip
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Dec 22, 2019 20:45 |  #1

Hello,

I have been a lifelong Canon user who is thinking about switching to Nikon or Sony. I have quite a collection of Canon gear as I never seem to sell my old stuff after I purchase new gear. Currently, here is a list of the gear I use most:

  • DSLR: 6D Mark II, 80D (also have 70D, 7D, 40D and the original Rebel)
  • Canon Lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 300 F4, 70-200 F2.8, 85 F1.8, EF-S 17-55 F2.8 and a handful of inexpensive zooms and fixed length)
  • 3rd Party Lenses: Sigma 35 F1.8 Art, Rokinon 14 F2.8
  • Other: Canon 1.4x versions II and II

My primary applications are landscape (regular and HDR), birding, and astrophotography. I used to do a lot of sports photography and would like to start that again as well. I almost always shoot in RAW, usually using Av mode but have started using Manual especially with birding. For HDR I take 5 bracketed shots and combine them using PhotoMatrix Pro.

There are many things I like about my Canon gear. One area I have always been disappointed is the picture quality when using high ISO. This is the number one reason I kept upgrading cameras, was to be able to shoot at higher ISO. I feel my cameras are holding me back in two scenarios. First if I try to boost an underexposed shot in post I end up with a lot of noise. Second if I shoot at ISO over 1600 I see a lot of noise. The noise problem is partcicularly acute for birding and astrophotography.

I have been researching this a lot and learned about ISO Invariance. Also used DXOMark to compare sensors. From everything I read, it seems I would be much better off with a Nikon 750 or Sony A7R II or A7R III. The problem is my huge investment in lenses. I know you cannot put my Canon lenses on a Nikon. There are some adapters to let me put them on a Sony but I read mixed reviews. Looking for advice on what I should do.

Another option would be to sell the 6D Mark II (and maybe 7D and 70D that are not used anymore) and get a 5D IV. It would be an improvement over the 6D II and all my lenses would work, but it still falls short of the Nikon and Sony models in terms of Dynamic Range and ISO-Invariance. I attached a chart from DXOMark comparing Dynamic Range of three of the models.

Would appreciate any thoughs/suggestions about this. There are some decent EOY sales on some of this gear so I am thinking of pulling the trigger in the next week.


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Camera: Canon EOS-R and 80D with grips,
Canon lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 70-200F2.8, 300F4 IS, 85F1.8, 50F1.8, 17-55 F2.8 EFS, and 1.4x extender
Other lenses: Tamron 28-75 F2.8

  
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equetefue
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Dec 22, 2019 21:01 |  #2

That is a very expensive proposition if you ask me. IMO if you are just looking to shoot landscapes, I would replace your prosumer bodies and your 6d for a 5ds


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Post edited over 2 years ago by SkedAddled. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 22, 2019 22:45 |  #3

Well, I've just seen an extremely low-noise, super-high ISO image from a 6DII,
and I can now personally attest to the strengths of a 5D4.

Whether or not you choose to jump ship, I'd suggest you reevaluate what you actually EXPECT to achieve,
and if a changeover to another stable would accomplish those expectations.

Also, don't ignore some of the fine glass you already have.
It can be awfully expensive to jump to another maker's system.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Dec 22, 2019 22:56 |  #4

5D4 is $1,619.00 from Canon right now (refurb store with 10% off promo code)

The difference between the 5D4 and Nikon/Sony is negligible re: "iso in-variance" Maybe 1 stop or less. In fact, just earlier today I was posting quotes from DPReviews article on the 5D4,. i'll repost here;


https://www.dpreview.c​om …ws/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv/9 (external link)

EG:
"At high ISO the EOS 5D IV's images are directly comparable with most of its peers. Whether compared with the Nikon D810, the Sony a7R II, or Ricoh's Pentax K-1, it does very well. Better, certainly, than the EOS 5DS.

As you head into expanded ISO range, the EOS 5D IV it even creeps a little ahead of the Nikon."

"The 5D Mark IV shows significant improvements in exposure latitude thanks to its increased dynamic range. After a 5 EV push, it's well ahead of the 5DS which, despite its old sensor design with off-chip analog-to-digital conversion, was already 2/3 EV ahead of the 5D Mark III (which we cover in-depth on the next page). That places the 5D IV well ahead of its predecessor, nearly catching up to the excellent Sony a7R II."

"...above ISO 400, the camera does, for the most part, exhibit ISO invariance, meaning that you could underexpose a traditional ISO 6400 exposure by 4 EV by shooting it at ISO 400 (while maintaining the shutter speed and aperture for ISO 6400), and then raise exposure 4 EV in post. This technique would afford you 4 EV of highlight headroom, with little to no noise cost, relative to shooting at ISO 6400.

Compared to its predecessor, the 5D Mark III, this is a massive improvement. With the Mark III, one could not simply underexpose to protect highlights without paying a significant noise cost when boosting shadows in post, meaning you had to make your choices about which tones you wished to preserve on the spot, at the time of the exposure. "


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kf095
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Dec 23, 2019 10:41 |  #5

And 5D MKIV has very nice, improved grip. :)


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gjl711
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Dec 23, 2019 11:03 |  #6

Switching systems is very expensive and usually gets you little improvement. If you compare all the platforms, there is a difference at low ISO but one you get into the higher ISOs, the difference pretty much goes away. As you have the 6DII, your higher ISO shooting should be covered and the 80D has a low ISO DR pretty much matching the Nikon and Sony cameras. But if you are really looking for an upgrade, instead of changing systems requiring you to swap out everything, why not look to the newer Canon mirrorless cameras. The EOS RP is under $1000 right now. It has better performance than either the 80D or 6DII or for a little more, the 5DIV, the current Canon king of low noise and high DR.


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wimg
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Dec 24, 2019 07:09 |  #7

Have you considered an EOS R with control ring adapter?

Similar sensor to 5D IV, with similar characteristics.

I came from a 5D Mk II, and I am very, very impressed with the results.

This way you are also stepping into the next camer life cycle, i.e., mirrorless, while still being able to use all of your EF-mount lenses, with better focus and faster AF speed.

HTH, kind regards, Wim


EOS R & EOS 5 (analog) with a gaggle of primes & 3 zooms, OM-D E-M1 Mk II & Pen-F with 10 primes, 6 zooms, 3 Metabones adapters/speedboosters​, and an accessory plague

  
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MrChip
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Dec 25, 2019 01:33 |  #8

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and comments. I would have replied sooner but have been under the weather with a nasty cold.

I must admit 6D II purchase was a bit of an impulse buy. There was a great sale on it and I assumed it would be noticeably better than the 6D (which had fairly decent reviews in some astrophotography forums). For 2 years I have longed to buy a 5D IV, but could not justify the extra expense.

Jake, your post makes me feel much more comfortable upgrading to a 5D IV. I would very much appreciate your opinion on wimg's comment about the EOS R. It seems to have the same Dynamic Range performance as the 5D IV (per DXO Mark), and has focus peaking (nice for astrophotography) and a rotating finder.


Camera: Canon EOS-R and 80D with grips,
Canon lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 70-200F2.8, 300F4 IS, 85F1.8, 50F1.8, 17-55 F2.8 EFS, and 1.4x extender
Other lenses: Tamron 28-75 F2.8

  
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MrChip
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Dec 25, 2019 10:02 |  #9

Update: Woke up this morning and was super bummed to see the prices jumped a lot on the 5D IV and EOS-R. As I mentioned I have been quite sick for the past week plus. Was not thinking that the EOY prices would end on Dec 24. I bought my 6D Mark II right before Xmas last year. Historically will I need to wait another year to see those price levels on a 5D IV? If so, the $2,200 body cost verses $1,200 for a new Nikon D750 makes selling some of my gear and switching to a Nikon D750 for landscape, HDR and astrophotography.

Regardless. I will keep the 80D, 100-400, 1.4x III teleconverter, 70-200, and 85mm for birding, wildlife and sports.

For landscape, HDR and astrophotography I could sell my 6D II and 300 F4 to buy a Nikon D 750 with a Nikon 85 F1.8. Then I would "trade-in" (sell and re-buy) my Sigma 35mm Art and Rokinon 14mm for their Nikon equivalents.

Obviously this is a big move and if the window has closed on the great camera body pricing, I now have time to rent a Nikon setup for a week and see what I think about it. Know I am rambling... just cannot believe I spaced out and screwed this up. :(


Camera: Canon EOS-R and 80D with grips,
Canon lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 70-200F2.8, 300F4 IS, 85F1.8, 50F1.8, 17-55 F2.8 EFS, and 1.4x extender
Other lenses: Tamron 28-75 F2.8

  
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gjl711
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Dec 25, 2019 10:16 |  #10

It'll come down again I'm sure. Might be that after the holidays if they didn't sell as many as they thought they would, we'll see another price drop.


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MrChip
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Dec 25, 2019 10:27 as a reply to  @ wimg's post |  #11

wimg - thank you for your comment. Prior to you mentioning it I did not even think about the EOS-R. It does seem to have some advantages over the 5D IV for some of my applications while offering virtually the same Dynamic Range performance. I skimmed some posts on it and I see people are saying to dot use it for action photography (sports, birding, etc.). Do you know why this is the case?


Camera: Canon EOS-R and 80D with grips,
Canon lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 70-200F2.8, 300F4 IS, 85F1.8, 50F1.8, 17-55 F2.8 EFS, and 1.4x extender
Other lenses: Tamron 28-75 F2.8

  
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MrChip
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Dec 25, 2019 14:35 as a reply to  @ gjl711's post |  #12

Hi I just heard a rumor that the rebates are being extended. If true I wonder in Canon corporate is following this thread - haha.


Camera: Canon EOS-R and 80D with grips,
Canon lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 70-200F2.8, 300F4 IS, 85F1.8, 50F1.8, 17-55 F2.8 EFS, and 1.4x extender
Other lenses: Tamron 28-75 F2.8

  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Dec 25, 2019 15:45 |  #13

MrChip wrote in post #18980478 (external link)
wimg - thank you for your comment. Prior to you mentioning it I did not even think about the EOS-R. It does seem to have some advantages over the 5D IV for some of my applications while offering virtually the same Dynamic Range performance. I skimmed some posts on it and I see people are saying to dot use it for action photography (sports, birding, etc.). Do you know why this is the case?


So, Wimg said

Wimg wrote:
...with better focus and faster AF speed.

I am pretty sure that he meant compared to what you are shooting now, and not so much vs. 5D4, but I could be wrong.

My impressions of the EOS-R vs. the 5D4 after years of shooting 5D4 but admittedly only a few weeks playing with the EOS-R thus far;

SOME aspects of the EOS-R AF could be better than the 5D4,. but AF tracking of fast moving subjects I do not believe is one of them. Here the 5D4 with it's ever so slightly watered down 1DXII AF System is your best bet. (of the two)
But the EOS-R does have some advantages over the 5D4, and some of them are AF related.
- With mirrorless you never need to micro-adjust, it will just be spot on.
- It will AF at much smaller apertures than the 5D4

also;
- You can mount and use at full potential all RF, EF AND EF-S lenses (in crop mode)
- Lighter
- Excellent tilty screen.

.. and more.

5D4 still a better action camera for AF tracking and frames per second.


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MrChip
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Dec 25, 2019 17:35 as a reply to  @ CyberDyneSystems's post |  #14

Thank you Jake for continuing to follow this. I did get confirmation that the $1,749 price for a new 5D IV body is back online for an unknown length of time. The refurbished deals are, sadly, over. Thanks to you I better understand the AF differences between the two. In terms of fast moving subjects, specifically birding and limited sports, I have planned to stick with my 80D combined with the 100-400 II in order to get the additional reach of the crop-factor. I am starting to lean towards the EOS-R for several reasons. I read that it is possible to use auto focus on stars with lenses that are 2.8 or faster on the EOS-R. My primary astrophoto lenses are F1.4 and F2.8. Being able to auto focus would be a huge benefit. Plus I see there is an adapter for the EOS-R that comes with a drop-in circular polarizer. This would give me the ability to use that type of filter on my 14mm Rokinon, which is not currently possible. There may be future drop-in filters where I can buy one filter and use it across all my glass. I also wonder if it would be possible to pair my 100-400 with a 2x III on the EOS-R and still get auto focus?

If you take AF of fast moving objects out of the equation, given my shooting subjects, how would you compare the EOS-R to the 5D? With the 5D IV sale back on, the two are pretty close in price. Are they close in Dynamic Range and high ISO from your experience?


Camera: Canon EOS-R and 80D with grips,
Canon lenses: 100-400 Mark II, 70-200F2.8, 300F4 IS, 85F1.8, 50F1.8, 17-55 F2.8 EFS, and 1.4x extender
Other lenses: Tamron 28-75 F2.8

  
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wimg
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Dec 25, 2019 18:25 |  #15

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18980579 (external link)
So, Wimg said

I am pretty sure that he meant compared to what you are shooting now, and not so much vs. 5D4, but I could be wrong.

My impressions of the EOS-R vs. the 5D4 after years of shooting 5D4 but admittedly only a few weeks playing with the EOS-R thus far;

SOME aspects of the EOS-R AF could be better than the 5D4,. but AF tracking of fast moving subjects I do not believe is one of them. Here the 5D4 with it's ever so slightly watered down 1DXII AF System is your best bet. (of the two)
But the EOS-R does have some advantages over the 5D4, and some of them are AF related.
- With mirrorless you never need to micro-adjust, it will just be spot on.
- It will AF at much smaller apertures than the 5D4

also;
- You can mount and use at full potential all RF, EF AND EF-S lenses (in crop mode)
- Lighter
- Excellent tilty screen.

.. and more.

5D4 still a better action camera for AF tracking and frames per second.

FPS, yes, tracking I hoestly could not say - there are quite a few peopel doing birding with the EOS-R - see the EOS-R thread :). Face and eye recognition is increbly good, however.

TBVH, I could do tracking with the 5D II and the 100-400L Mk I, even though it was aharder to do then with the 1D Mk III. Since I am not really a sports photographer, I didn;t really mind anyway. :)

Kind regards, Wim


EOS R & EOS 5 (analog) with a gaggle of primes & 3 zooms, OM-D E-M1 Mk II & Pen-F with 10 primes, 6 zooms, 3 Metabones adapters/speedboosters​, and an accessory plague

  
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Lifelong Canon User Considering Nikon or Sony
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