Win 10 Installed on M2 (thanks!) Win 10 Tweeks ensue!

That thread just made me cry.......went through the Window 10 'Virus' a few times with my kids systems. Yes, Virus, it installs itself even if you tell it not to. If you like the Xbox format then the Windows 10 Format is similar. I cannot understand why they did not offer a 'windows 7' like interface with all the new code for Windows 10 hidden from view. Each time I have to fix something on my kids systems its a new kind of pain in the ass.

But on the M2 drive front, I had purchased two of the Asus Hyper M.2 PCI cards that I was going to use in my two younger kids systems (both have same motherboard since I had a spare when I first built the system years ago.) But those cards are not compatible with the motherboards they now have LOL. Asus Crosshair V formula-z with AMD Bulldowser 8 core CPU.

Anyway I too have been learning about the M.2 Drives and we rebuilt my oldest kid's system this Christmas with new ASUS board.ROG X299 E That board supports two M.2 cards but each interface is different. And the bandwidth is shared with the eSata if you use that.

But from what I have read the Hyper M.2 PCI card (which we are going to install soon) runs those M.2 drives at full PCI speed. 30 GB/s instead of the SATA limit of 6. I'll let you know how that build works out. My goal is to build myself a new system this year and use the second card in mine.

The lack of backward compatibility with Windows 10 is a pain. There is an emulator that runs 7 in 10 but it is very hardware dependent. You cannot use the emulator with AMD processors from what I recall.

Mike

Aronis wrote in post #18986190
I cannot understand why they did not offer a 'windows 7' like interface with all the new code for Windows 10 hidden from view. Each time I have to fix something on my kids systems its a new kind of pain in the ass.

Mike

There might be ways that can help...I would start with https://www.thewindows​club.com …ws-10-look-like-windows-7. Some older content at https://www.howtogeek.​com …-act-more-like-windows-7/

All the tools and features useful for system level stuff in Windows 7 are still in Windows 10, you just have to know what they are in order to search for them and open them.

So you can use the simplified more user friendly settings menus developed for Windows 10, that also work really well with a touch screen, or you can use the more complex, less intuitive but sometimes more powerful system settings developed in Windows 7.

Ctrl/shift/esc still opens task manager
System Information, device manager and computer management can still be found by typing the start of those after pressing the windows key
Those tools are mostly exactly the same as they were in Windows 7

Of course there are many tools still found in Windows 10 that are completely redundant, like "disk defragment and optimize drives"

I'm not really sure why one would hold on to Windows 7. I found limitations with Windows 7 when I used a system with a UHD monitor: IE highDPI scaling. Windows 10 is so much better about that or other multimedia standards now (such as HDR and Dolby Atmos over HDMI). Windows 10 is much better with scaling over a high resolution monitor: the advanced properties actually render legacy programs much better than Windows 7 did. The main issue I've found with 10 is the control panel: every update and it gets worse about how there's less options. You can at least create a shortcut to the "classic" control panel though. You also can't fault Windows 10 with any performance hit.

I thought I was clear about "why" in my first post. Legacy.

- Old software that won't run on 10
- Old hardware that won't run on 10
- Hardware that will require resetting up.
- Hardware that will require new version updated drivers to be found.

Add to those necessities my personal preferences.

- A desire to have a working system I can fall back to if/WHEN things don't work.
- A stable proven system while I work the bugs out.
- A completely set up system I can get to immediately when I haven't set it up on 10 yet.

As to the first section, ALL my Data, except Photos, is stored on a Mirrored RAID 1 pair created in Win7 Pro.
Every document, every banking statement etc,. and guess what? Windows 10 in it's infinite wisdom will not read a "dynamic disk" created by Windows 7. (one needs two dynamic disks to created a RAID in Windows 7)
So, If I had not kept my Windows 7 install, I would have lost access to that volume for some time.

For me, setting up a workstation to my preferences is a months long procedure. I may be an anal OCD control freak where this is concerned, but it's how I do it. Then once I've achieved customized tailored comfortable nirvana, I am loathe to give it up. Of all Windows upgrades, the 8/10 one means the most change in how I do things. Learning everything all over again. This one aspect was reason enough for perhaps millions of users to wait until Jan 2020 to make the switch. Some still haven't.

To help with all of this, I've been "Dual booting" Windows versions since I went from 3.1 to 95.
It simply makes the process far more painless.

Jake,
Instead of setting up a dual boot system, why not simply keep your old Windows 7 PC around, to do all of the things the dual boot system would do? I know, 'less space' is one reason. But it seems all a lot of bother (dual boot system) rather than the easier way to accomplish continued operation of Win7-compatible hardware and software. Linked together via internet connection, you can get at files on the Win10 PC from the Win7 PC. I have that exact setup myself, and a shared NAS and printer as well.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18986377
Windows 10 in it's infinite wisdom will not read a "dynamic disk" created by Windows 7. (one needs two dynamic disks to created a RAID in Windows 7)
So, If I had not kept my Windows 7 install, I would have lost access to that volume for some time.

The Win 7 dynamic disk, does it show as foreign? If so go to https://docs.microsoft​.com …eshooting-disk-management and scroll down to the area "A dynamic disk's status is Foreign". Something there might help.

Moppie wrote in post #18986311
All the tools and features useful for system level stuff in Windows 7 are still in Windows 10, you just have to know what they are in order to search for them and open them.

So you can use the simplified more user friendly settings menus developed for Windows 10, that also work really well with a touch screen, or you can use the more complex, less intuitive but sometimes more powerful system settings developed in Windows 7.

Ctrl/shift/esc still opens task manager
System Information, device manager and computer management can still be found by typing the start of those after pressing the windows key
Those tools are mostly exactly the same as they were in Windows 7

Of course there are many tools still found in Windows 10 that are completely redundant, like "disk defragment and optimize drives"

Oh I have found those things.....still though they are "there," there is no reason to totally disrespect a huge installed base of OLDER people like my 80 year old mother who uses her windows machine for email and facebook, by making the interface so different, and not offering DURING installation the option to "Make it look like windows X" name your version. When they were hit with the Windows 10 Virus it took weeks for them to relearn simple things on their systems. I think the interfaces that have come out since are a response to this issue.

But I must give credit were it is due. Windows 10 is a great OS. Uses the cores well. etc. And when upgrading from Windows 7 to 10 the RAIDs (Software) were not destroyed, and all the printers still worked. Once the pain of learning it is over, its nice. Not Mac Nice but nice. See the post that follows, he's spot on, clearly Windows 10 is state of the art.

If Microsoft is just after the Millennials with their new "Cool, Looks like my Xbox" interface they better make sure they understand that it is still us OLD GUYS who have all the money and the buying power. Millennials like Freeware and Freestuff. Us old guys like FUNCTION over FORM. Once the FreeStuff is up to par and has FUNCTION, the freeware OS's will take over a market share, strangely enough, that will be in the Millennial group first. "Cool, looks like my Xbox" does not trump FREE FREE FREE!

Mike

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18986377
I thought I was clear about "why" in my first post. Legacy.

- Old software that won't run on 10
- Old hardware that won't run on 10
- Hardware that will require resetting up.
- Hardware that will require new version updated drivers to be found.

Add to those necessities my personal preferences.

I read you loud and clear and agree 100%.

For example my Dad's insulin meter had issues with 10.....not great for a diabetic to wait 3 months for the software to catch up.

Mike

Um, infinite space and infinite resources, I have an old Windows 98 machine in my garage that runs still LOL I run older versions of car repair software that was not upgraded for 7 and will not be, but still works. IE that installed base I was talking about. My friend is a mechanic and he has to keep win 98 and XP machines up and running for that reason, while also having a windows 7/10 machine for the newer software. Not everyone wants to buy or can afford to buy new hardware because some engineer at Microsoft neutered the old one with a software "Update." Sometimes having several computers hanging around is a space and clutter issue. I had my Windows 7 system dual booting Windows XP for several years since I had the same compatibility issue with Win 7 then. (Windows Picture Pro for example). I only recently killed that partition. I passed that system to my son and there is no longer any 7 on it either.

On my mac I have Parallels files for Windows 98, XP, and 7. I have not upgraded my 7 virtual OS yet. I still use the older 2004 version of Quicken. I am resisting the Pay as you go software as long as I can. Thus my holding on to Aperture and Elements. Soon Windows 11 will require a monthly payment for you to be able to log on and check your email.

Mike

One thing I don’t understand in the transition from Win 7 to Win 10 is the number of people who really are objecting to the “live tiles” panel that is immediately to the Start area. Any of these tiles can be removed, even to the point where the panel is absent. In addition, for individuals that use the typical three or four applications. Simply set up a desktop icon in the old fashioned way.

Wilt wrote in post #18986401
Jake,
Instead of setting up a dual boot system, why not simply keep your old Windows 7 PC around, to do all of the things the dual boot system would do? I know, 'less space' is one reason. But it seems all a lot of bother (dual boot system) rather than the easier way to accomplish continued operation of Win7-compatible hardware and software. Linked together via internet connection, you can get at files on the Win10 PC from the Win7 PC. I have that exact setup myself, and a shared NAS and printer as well.

Cause my system rocks,. and I don;t want to build a new one.

I have the dual boot set up now, fiddling with Windows 10 as I type, it's all good for now.
I do hate Windows 10, but I guess I'll get used to it. I was hoping to wait this one out, like I did with "Millennium" and "Vista" but alas,..

John from PA wrote in post #18986446
The Win 7 dynamic disk, does it show as foreign? If so go to https://docs.microsoft​.com …eshooting-disk-management and scroll down to the area "A dynamic disk's status is Foreign". Something there might help.

Thanks, but it's all set now. I converted it to MBR, after doing a complete back up just in case, but it's fine.

John from PA wrote in post #18986564
One thing I don’t understand in the transition from Win 7 to Win 10 is the number of people who really are objecting to the “live tiles” panel that is immediately to the Start area. Any of these tiles can be removed, even to the point where the panel is absent. In addition, for individuals that use the typical three or four applications. Simply set up a desktop icon in the old fashioned way.

I had no trouble at all fixing tiles. Right now my Win 10 install is on the surface very similar to my 7 install,.
I just finished breaking it's desire to store everything in subfolders on the C: drive, and have it all right where it should be on the D: Data drive, in the old My Documents, My Music, My Pictures etc (of course NONE of those pictures are the ones I take with my cameras, those are on a huge separate RAID F: Fotos.

The only thing I let go on C: now is apps, I stopped moving "Program Files" to D: with Windows XP64.

The nexy possible issue is permissions. All of the above folders on the D: Data drive were refusing to aloow my Win 10 istall read them, write to them, etc. I had to "take ownership" of all of them. My guess is that will mean they are no longer going to be accesible by Win 7,. which is all rather annoying. That's a later battle.

Every time I have done this before, it has been temporary, as I do, like anyone else eventually evolve to the modern OS,. or more to the point, break it to my own will and needs. But the point is in the mean time NOT to be stuck, and now I can adopt to Win 10 at my leisure.

I didn't wait out Vista. I'm not sure why it gets so much flack. At the time, it was great. I used it with a 3D animation workstation, and found it was much better and optimized for 64bit multithreading compared with XP 64. It was a bit bloated, but wasn't hard to kill things. I also haven't had issues upgrading OS with RAID as I use hardware based SAS Contoller. Different strokes,