LP-E4 Oddity

I'm going to try to front end load this post with the big bullets up front, but there are some odd little details that I will add that just make all this more and more hard to diagnose.

I have two LP-E4 batteries that appear o to take a charge just as designed in my 1D4 era charger, but both of them quite suddenly, provide absolutely no power to the 1D4 OR 1Dx when inserted. No power up, no red LED blip upon locking,. nothing.

Both worked last summer. Both still go into the charger, and a few hours later read as fully charged.

I don't think those two batteries are bad. I think something, either in the batteries or in the camera, has made them no longer connect to the camera.

Is this a thing?

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OK, here's the long form with a lot more details:

- These are Canon branded OEM batteries.

- I notice on 1D bodies from 1D3 - 1DxII that the battery is disconnected even when fully inserted. It can not send power to the camera, even though contacts are fully seated, UNTIL the latch is turned, at which point the latch contacts an internal switch to allow the power to go to the camera.

- I have three LP-E4 and one LP-E4N

- The "N" Came with my used 1D4 when I bought many years ago. It gave me problems, so I never used it.

- The three LP-E4 are older, (really old) bought when I had my 1D3s (plural) BUT the last time I used them two were fully functional. One of them still had three bars, one was only down to 2. The third had died two years ago, the way you'd expect, the charger rejects it, and it does nothing when inserted in the 1D4. This one has been labeled bad now for two years.

- When I got the 1D4, I could charge the LP-E4n that came with it (down to two bars) BUT when I put it into the 1D4 I would get sporadic power. At times the Camera would simply "brick" and it would behave as if there were no battery installed at all. So I shelved it. I've not used it since I got the 1D4,. some 4 years ago... It seemed like the battery was being somehow disconnected.

- Today, those two old LP-E4 are behaving just like that 4n did, except instead of "sporadic disconnect" I have 100% disconnect. No power at all.

- If I put the LP-E4n in my 1DxII, it functions as it should. This is really weird, I can not get the same battery that has not been used in 4 years to reproduce the disconnect behavior in a 2nd body.

- Weirder still, if I put the either of the two LP-E4 that take a charge but won't power the 1D4 in the 1DXII, No power! Just like the in the 1D4.

- I have some crappy low cost 3rd party "Kastar" LP-E4. In the 1D4 they are all working fine. One has the latching mechanism from the "bad as of 2 years ago" OEM. One works "ok" with it's cheezy Chinese latch, but both work.


My one and only 1DXII battery works in both.

A mystery.

If the batteries don't work in either 1D body at all, they are faulty. Either the cells are bad inside, or the PCB that sits between the camera/charging system and the cells themselves have gone bad.

https://royreddy.wordp​ress.com …-pack-repair-canon-lp-e4/

Just go find 6 18650 3.7Volt 3,000mA cells and replace them! How hard can it be? (EDIT: actually 9 cells)

Sounds like others may have had this similar issue?
https://www.dpreview.c​om/forums/thread/30523​78

Check the charger and note the 6 electrical connectors.

The packs have 3 Li-ion cells, not 6.
I believe the 6 connectors are:

Obviously there is a positive and a negative.
I think the other 4 connect to:
2 for temperature sensor
1 to the connection between cell 1 and 2
1 to the connection between cell 2 and 3

These connections allow the pack to be balance charged, which is a safety issue. Otherwise, over time, individual cells will be at risk of overcharging.

The balance and temperature connections means there is more than just + and - volts to function. I don't know if the bodies use the extra 4 connections.
I also don't know what other circuits are inside the LP 4 and 19 packs and if they are the same.

The older 1D Ni-Mh that used 10 x AA cells did not require any balancing but I do know there was a thermal protection device inside.
There are only + and - connectors on the pack, the thermal cutout device inside the pack just goes open circuit if tripped (or faulty)

He will actually need 9 cells, not 3, or 6, I was wrong the first time.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18989803
He will actually need 9 cells, not 3, or 6, I was wrong the first time.

Sorry, still wrong. 3 x 18650. That is what the packs have inside, it's a fact.

3 x 3.7V = 11.1V. 11.1V is what is printed on the pack.

An LP-E4 or 19 battery body is about 77mm long. (the part that holds the cells, not including the latch housing)
18650 means: 18mm diameter x 65mm long, 0 = cylindrical.

The old packs have 10 x AA, not 8, as you originally posted.

Choderboy wrote in post #18989813
Sorry, still wrong. 3 x 18650. That is what the packs have inside, it's a fact.

3 x 3.7V = 11.1V. 11.1V is what is printed on the pack.

An LP-E4 or 19 battery body is about 77mm long. (the part that holds the cells, not including the latch housing)
18650 means: 18mm diameter x 65mm long, 0 = cylindrical.

The old packs have 10 x AA, not 8, as you originally posted.

I suggest you go back and read Jake's thread and see if you still think I am wrong...

You could have said "I was talking about all rebuilding all 3 packs" but that would have been too easy.

You got the cell count wrong regarding the old 1D/1D2 packs which do not even apply so just assumed you were similarly confused about the packs that are being talked about.,

Choderboy wrote in post #18989822
You could have said "I was talking about all rebuilding all 3 packs" but that would have been too easy.

You got the cell count wrong regarding the old 1D/1D2 packs which do not even apply so just assumed you were similarly confused about the packs that are being talked about.,

I figured it was immediately obvious that Jake said 3 LP-E4s, and 3 cells each = 9, and apologize it wasn't so clear. I said 6 cells at first because he was only concerned about 2 of his packs, but realized he had a 3rd he already committed to the closet as being useless.

It would be worth taking them apart and putting in these rechargeables, to get 3 working sets again.

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I don't have any answers or insights for you, but I wanted to say that I am just impressed that you can tell one battery from the others.

I have several batteries for my 1D4 and my 5D / 50D / 7D / 7D2 / 6D / 5D4 lying about in various bags and pockets, and have no idea as the the history behind any of them. . They all look the same to me, and of course I never mark them or anything. . I just make sure to have a few with me so that if I inadvertently grab one that has been dead for a while, at least there's another right there to swap it out for.

You can get old used batteries really cheap on ebay, so that may be a cheap way to replace the ones that aren't working anymore.

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TeamSpeed wrote in post #18989752
If the batteries don't work in either 1D body at all, they are faulty. Either the cells are bad inside, or the PCB that sits between the camera/charging system and the cells themselves have gone bad.

https://royreddy.wordp​ress.com …-pack-repair-canon-lp-e4/

Just go find 6 18650 3.7Volt 3,000mA cells and replace them! How hard can it be? (EDIT: actually 9 cells)

Sounds like others may have had this similar issue?
https://www.dpreview.c​om/forums/thread/30523​78

Thanks,
I had read this, but it's different in that in all those cases, the batteries would not take a charge, and the charger said they were poop.
In my case the chargers love them and whisper sweet nothing in their ears while gently fully charging them and saying they don't need reconditioning etc..


Also, the LP-E4n was the beginning of this weirdness, and it works great in the 1DXII.
Can anyone confirm that an LP-E4 will even work in a 1DXII?

If the PCB were bad, wouldn't the charger reject them? I haven't put a meter on them yet, but I will do so tonight.

Note sure I want to rebuild them myself. (it's relatively easy to swap the latches, but not so easy to break open the casing and re-solder, etc. and who knows if the PCB is good)

My concern is that it's the camera, not the batteries. If I KNEW it was just the batteries, I'd just do what I did with the other one that was confirmed "dead" by all involved, and swap the Canon latch with a Kastar or Wasabi pack.

P.S. BOTH the 1D4 charger LC-E4n, and the 1DXII Charger LC-E19 read these two batteries as "full" and like them.

It's just so weird.

If you're thinking it could be the latch not fully moving the switch, it is possible to insert a thin strip of plastic to slide the switch lever towards the back of the camera & hold it there while plugging in a battery without using the latch at all...

joeseph wrote in post #18990345
If you're thinking it could be the latch not fully moving the switch, it is possible to insert a thin strip of plastic to slide the switch lever towards the back of the camera & hold it there while plugging in a battery without using the latch at all...

Hosted photo: posted by joeseph in
./showthread.php?p=189​90345&i=i208660487
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

OK, This really looks like it could be the test I am looking for! Thanks.

OK, it looks like i have found the problem,. and it's not the batteries or the camera?!

I put one of the LP-E4 into the LC-E19 charger earlier today when I was just checking to see what that charger thought of the battery, error flashes etc., which as I mentioned earlier today, that charger also said it was fine, fully charged, no errors...

BUT I forgot about it, didn't take out, and left it there for about an hour and half.
When i saw Joseph's post above I grabbed it to try and test the switch on the 1D4, but before I tried fiddling with the piece of plastic, I for whatever reason stuck the battery in and flipped the switch,. and guess what.
Full power!