Article: Is back button focus becoming outdated?

RDKirk wrote in post #18999773
... it's a matter of "different task."

My camera is set up considerably different for shooting stage productions from the settings for shooting studio portraits. That was true even with DSLRs, and I find there are more possibilities with the EOS R.

It's not confusing because the different settings are contextual to the subject.

....

Exactly, and like you many of us already used more than "one way of doing things" with a DSLR.
Yes, for Canon shooters the EOS-R has added more options, likewise with exposure modes, etc. but adding AV mode did not negate shooting manual, adding Auto ISO will not eliminate times where AV is better, etc.

"I just got a hammer, I'll never use my screwdriver ever again."
This thread is weird.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18999941
This thread is weird.

The normal arguments and counter arguments have been beaten to death in previous threads.

A new thread can only bring out weirdness if new claims are to be made. I am not surprised at that at all.

All that does surprise me is that the same cast of characters is still partaking in this one and making some of the same repetitive arguments.

Charlie, what is the point of arguing against BBF by offering other methods to do the same?

- If it's valid to do it the way you describe, why is it not valid to do it using BBF?

- The method you illustrate above is only available to a select few that have access to a very limited number of lenses. So even the select few would be unable to use it most of the time with the other hundreds or EF mount lenses that don't have the buttons in your illustration.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18999941
Exactly, and like you many of us already used more than "one way of doing things" with a DSLR.
"I just got a hammer, I'll never use my screwdriver ever again."
This thread is weird.

Gregsiem wrote in post #18999942
The normal arguments and counter arguments have been beaten to death in previous threads.
All that does surprise me is that the same cast of characters is still partaking in this one and making some of the same repetitive arguments.

.
The thing that often happens when the back button issue is discussed is that the people who like to use the back button explain why they like it and why it works better for the way they shoot. . Then the people who don't like the back button tell the people who do like it why they shouldn't use it, why it isn't necessary, how there are other ways to accomplish the same thing ......

The BBF proponents don't try to tell others that they should be using it and that shutter button focus is wrong for them. . They simply say that they find that BBF is best for their shooting, and explain why it works better than shutter button focusing for them. . Us BBF folks realize that you shutter button focus people have your reasons for using the shutter button, and we are fine with you doing so. . We don't try to convince you that you should be using BBF.

Yet, the shutter button people often seem to tell the BBF people that they shouldn't be using BBF. . They make it seem like if we prefer to use BBF, then we "just aren't getting it", or that some other method would be a bit better for us.

Why can't the shutter button focus people just acknowledge that using the back button is better for other people and for other types of shooting?

............... ............... ............... ............... ...............

I see the same thing in the other beaten-to-death topic, the mirrorless vs. DSLR debate.

In those debates, what usually happens is that those who use DSLRs say why they prefer to use them, but that mirrorless cameras are probably better for other people and for other kinds of shooting. . Then the mirrorless proponents come back and basically say that mirrorless is better for everyone and better at everything and that we would all do better if we switched over to mirrorless like they did.

Why can't the mirrorless proponents just say that DSLRs are better at some kinds of photography and are a better choice for some photographers?

.

Can't we all just get along?

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18999941
Exactly, and like you many of us already used more than "one way of doing things" with a DSLR.
Yes, for Canon shooters the EOS-R has added more options, likewise with exposure modes, etc. but adding AV mode did not negate shooting manual, adding Auto ISO will not eliminate times where AV is better, etc.

"I just got a hammer, I'll never use my screwdriver ever again."
This thread is weird.

Yes, as I said, " That was true even with DSLRs."

I've never had enough Cn modes on any of my cameras.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18999950
Charlie, what is the point of arguing against BBF by offering other methods to do the same?

- If it's valid to do it the way you describe, why is it not valid to do it using BBF?

- The method you illustrate above is only available to a select few that have access to a very limited number of lenses. So even the select few would be unable to use it most of the time with the other hundreds or EF mount lenses that don't have the buttons in your illustration.

this is where you are mistaken

this feature exists on the EOS R body, and the article was intended on newer tech. You can now program your body to perform that button operation.

the reason for AF on shutter button is for a more simplistic experience, high/low angles it's easier with one button, remote triggering of AF, you regain all these features with shutter button AF.

I offer that feature existing on super lenses to show that AF Stop/ AF off, was intended for sports shooters to start with, BBAF isnt the only solution as suggested.

I have BBF and one-shot-servo on DOF-button (next to lens flange) for the 7Dii and it seems very sensible for permanent solution since I don't shoot w/ servo as often.

Charlie wrote in post #18999992
the reason for AF on shutter button is for a more simplistic experience, high/low angles it's easier with one button, remote triggering of AF, you regain all these features with shutter button AF.

I offer that feature existing on super lenses to show that AF Stop/ AF off, was intended for sports shooters to start with, BBAF isnt the only solution as suggested.

No one is sayting that BBF is the ONLY way to do AF!
Numerous folks (myself included) have stated a variety of reasons to use BBF,
because to resolves problems if AF is kept on the shutter button...Reasons for folks thinking about BBR but who cannot understand why to make the effort to adjust its use, so that they can overcome the same limitations of using a camera without BBF.

My Canon S110 only has focus on shutter button. And for a lot of shooting with it, the AF on shutter button works just perfect. But then along comes one of many reasons why I would love to disable shutter button AF, so I can make certain shots that are effectively made less feasible by always having shutter button AF.
Some folks have suggested some other solutions to try, like AF-OFF. In such cases, we have usually pointed out certain situations that are not solved by that particular suggestion, but where use of BBF does solve the problem.

IOW, there are reasons to USE BOTH kinds of control, what is best for accomplishing your goal! And we are stating the purposes fulfilled by BBF...we are not religious fanatics about it, not telling folks to worship a different god than they pray to now.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18999957
.
The thing that often happens when the back button issue is discussed is that the people who like to use the back button explain why they like it and why it works better for the way they shoot. . Then the people who don't like the back button tell the people who do like it why they shouldn't use it, why it isn't necessary, how there are other ways to accomplish the same thing ......

The BBF proponents don't try to tell others that they should be using it and that shutter button focus is wrong for them. . They simply say that they find that BBF is best for their shooting, and explain why it works better than shutter button focusing for them. . Us BBF folks realize that you shutter button focus people have your reasons for using the shutter button, and we are fine with you doing so. . We don't try to convince you that you should be using BBF.

Yet, the shutter button people often seem to tell the BBF people that they shouldn't be using BBF. . They make it seem like if we prefer to use BBF, then we "just aren't getting it", or that some other method would be a bit better for us.

Why can't the shutter button focus people just acknowledge that using the back button is better for other people and for other types of shooting?

............... ............... ............... ............... ...............

I see the same thing in the other beaten-to-death topic, the mirrorless vs. DSLR debate.

In those debates, what usually happens is that those who use DSLRs say why they prefer to use them, but that mirrorless cameras are probably better for other people and for other kinds of shooting. . Then the mirrorless proponents come back and basically say that mirrorless is better for everyone and better at everything and that we would all do better if we switched over to mirrorless like they did.

Why can't the mirrorless proponents just say that DSLRs are better at some kinds of photography and are a better choice for some photographers?

.

I'm not expecting anyone to change their opinion, but if you glance over the article again, this is about the usefulness of BBAF diminishing, while shutter button regaining usefulness for a few reasons.

like BBAF, nobody did it overnight, it was a learning process. Shutter button AF is a default setting, and only recently, did bodies have the ability to decouple AF with shutter button AF (the sole reason BBAF is popular is for this reason). The topic is being revisited due to advancements in body tech as well as additional features to decouple AF using a different method.

you can regain the features you give up with BBAF, while still having the ability to decouple AF like BBAF.

Charlie wrote in post #19000009
I'm not expecting anyone to change their opinion, but if you glance over the article again, this is about the usefulness of BBAF diminishing, while shutter button regaining usefulness for a few reasons.

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Right. . I get it. . I even agree with some of the things in the article and the article's premise as a whole.

However, in my post, the one you quoted, I was not speaking at all about the article that this thread was started about. . I was speaking only of the much broader, all-encompassing "BBF vs. shutter button AF" debate. . I did not mean to address the article at all, and nothing I wrote referenced the article that the OP based this thread upon. . Just talking about the age-old debate in general terms, that's all.


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Anyone want to discuss the value of protective filters?

Charlie wrote in post #19000009
I'm not expecting anyone to change their opinion, but if you glance over the article again, this is about the usefulness of BBAF diminishing, while shutter button regaining usefulness for a few reasons..

I do not disagree with the article, I merely pointed out some shortcomings in the analysis, missing situations. I presented several situations that were not discussed in the article, ones in which BBF was still needed...to counter the question posed about BBF becoming outdated.
I am waiting to hear if newer camera features DO eliminate the need for BBF, or if the situations I described were still applicable to 'why BBF'.

Pippan wrote in post #19000040
Anyone want to discuss the value of protective filters?

Haven’t seen anyone actively advocating that.

Querying the use, but not pushing.

Maybe eye-focus?

Pippan wrote in post #19000040
Anyone want to discuss the value of protective filters?

Why? Is there something about them we should know?