Article: Is back button focus becoming outdated?

I use BBAF exclusively. In the few instances where I let someone use my camera, I don't tell them about the focus button and they always are amazed that I can get sharp, in focus photos when every one that they take are out of focus.

Only way that I can be seen as a great photographer!!!!!!

Tim

Wilt wrote in post #19000045
I do not disagree with the article, I merely pointed out some shortcomings in the analysis, missing situations. I presented several situations that were not discussed in the article, ones in which BBF was still needed...to counter the question posed about BBF becoming outdated.
I am waiting to hear if newer camera features DO eliminate the need for BBF, or if the situations I described were still applicable to 'why BBF'.

I'm pretty sure I addressed them already.

macro/landscapes/produ​ct you can use MF or better yet, a custom mode. In these scenarios, BBAF for shutter button AF makes negligible impact, can we agree on that?

for all else such as prefocused subject, faster frame rates, confusing subject and action, Focus Hold/ AF Off/ AF stop button.

Whilst there may be different ways of achieving the same outcome as BBF I find it easier to almost religiously stick to one method that fits all (even if it's over complicated for some situations).

I do flick over to manual focus for most landscape and astro shots and often use manual override for macro, I seem to be able to handle that level of complexity

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Charlie,

I keep checking back in to this thread and looking for posts from you, waiting for you to say that for some of us, the BBF that we are using is perfect, and that there are certain situations in which it is still the best thing to do. . Yet I still haven't seen you say anything of the kind.

Would you agree that for some of us, using traditional BBF the way we've used it for years and years is still the best method for some of the things we shoot? . Or deep down, do you believe that some of these other things you've suggested will always be better for everything, if only we would give them a try?


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Consistency is king, once BBF is set up there isn't any reason to get off it for any kind of photography (minus eye af mode). I shoot sports, then go and do scenery, and then macros, etc all with BBF. It takes almost zero brain cells now for focusing and taking the shot, the thumb presses a button as needed, the shutter is hit to capture the moment.

For those of us that go to BBF, there isn't really any need to switch back for some types of photography, there isn't really any advantage to doing so.

I still don't get the argument that somehow using 2 buttons to manage AF is better than just pressing and releasing one button. Also, using AF OFF just isn't even close to a mainstream set up that people use. It is either BBF or shutter AF by a HUGE margin. There must be a reason for that.

mccamli wrote in post #19000114
Whilst there may be different ways of achieving the same outcome as BBF I find it easier to almost religiously stick to one method that fits all (even if it's over complicated for some situations).

I do flick over to manual focus for most landscape and astro shots and often use manual override for macro, I seem to be able to handle that level of complexity

it may sound difficult, but it's only as complex as BBAF. with newer cameras like the EOS-R, this feature exists, and to the best of my knowledge, this feature did not exist on DSLR, so it made sense to BBAF. The article in question is speculating due additional abilities of current cameras. At some point, there are new photographers introduced into the stream of photography, and it's certainly easier to learn BB AF OFF than BBAF.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19000141
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Charlie,

I keep checking back in to this thread and looking for posts from you, waiting for you to say that for some of us, the BBF that we are using is perfect, and that there are certain situations in which it is still the best thing to do. . Yet I still haven't seen you say anything of the kind.

Would you agree that for some of us, using traditional BBF the way we've used it for years and years is still the best method for some of the things we shoot? . Or deep down, do you believe that some of these other things you've suggested will always be better for everything, if only we would give them a try?


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well, it's not perfect, but if I were to be using a DSLR, I would set it up right away, no question about it. It's the best way to do it on those cameras. this debate does tinker back and forth on late and older model cameras, and I've trained myself to shoot either way after many years of BBAF.

literally nobody was talking about shutter button AF, but at the end of 2018? I started to take notice of a "Focus hold" button, on my Sony cameras, and started to research a little bit of the history with multiple manufacturers, and experimented with the feature to find out that anything I can do with BBAF, I can do with "Focus hold". Move on to the EOS-R, I grabbed one during the sales and found out that camera also has "AF OFF" mapping.

I've been using BBAF for a very long time, I estimate at least 10 years, so I'm quite familiar with the benefits, but if there is a more beneficial method, then I'll give it a shot. I'm open to trying new things at the expense of discomfort.

So you found a workflow you like better with your Sony system....then you write this statement:

Charlie wrote in post #19000009
I'm not expecting anyone to change their opinion, but if you glance over the article again, this is about the usefulness of BBAF diminishing, while shutter button regaining usefulness for a few reasons.

Can't you see how controversial a statement this is (BBF usefulness is outdated/diminishing), when it's still a very valid workflow for current cameras? You also mentioned you thought separation of exposure lock and AF might only be needed 1% of the time....I don't find that to be the case for my workflow.

You don't have to defend yourself and say you did BBF for X number of years and eventually found a better system for you. You also don't have to insinuate that those who still find BBF intuitive or valid for certain situations with their current camera are closed minded.

davesrose wrote in post #19000190
So you found a workflow you like better with your Sony system....then you write this statement:

Charlie wrote in post #19000009 (external link)
I'm not expecting anyone to change their opinion, but if you glance over the article again, this is about the usefulness of BBAF diminishing, while shutter button regaining usefulness for a few reasons.

Can't you see how controversial a statement this is (BBF usefulness is outdated/diminishing), when it's still a very valid workflow for current cameras? You also mentioned you thought separation of exposure lock and AF might only be needed 1% of the time....I don't find that to be the case for my workflow.

You're distorting what Charlie said. He never said it's not a valid workflow. He said the shutter button is regaining its usefulness for a few reasons.

First, "outdated" and "diminishing" are not the same thing as you're trying to conflate them. For instance, I related my case in which I have a particular use case, stage productions, for shutter release focusing because of the touch-and-drag capabilities of the EOS R. That's a "diminished" use of BBF for me--I no longer use BBF for that particular use. However, is still not "outdated" for me because I still use it for portraits.

There is nothing controversial about that statement.

From what I could read, the exchange that Charlie has been referencing is the original OP "article"....which admittedly can be hyperbole: however, to continue to refer to it, how can you not then equate its title (which specifically says "outdated")? To try to give a percentage of how people use BBF for any current camera also seems like a gross over-estimation. As my previous post said, there's currently people using cameras that are easier with a BBF workflow, and others (like you) have certain situations for BBF.

Charlie wrote in post #19000162
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well, it's not perfect, but if I were to be using a DSLR, I would set it up right away, no question about it.
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Thanks for responding to my question, Charlie.

You say "it's not perfect", yet it is better for what some of us do than any other thing available to us. . For what I do, there is no shortcoming with the BBF method whatsoever. . It is, truly, perfect ..... for the way I shoot. . Well, let me qualify that further. . It is a perfect method of separating the focus from the viewfinder. . The entire autofocus system of the camera, of course, is very far from perfect. . But within the scope of the older DSLRs that we use, we must work within the capabilities of their AF systems, and, given that, BBF is the most perfect way of using these systems.

You make a good point about DSLRs and BBF. I think the article that was referenced by the OP is primarily discussing new ways to focus was primarily speaking about some of the capabilities on some of the newer mirrorless cameras. The majority of us are still using DSLRs with no eye or face detect, so the author's points are pretty much lost on us. For the majority of us, who are using these DSLRs, the usefulness of BBF is not becoming outdated at all.

That, I think, is why the author's points don't resonate with us at all ..... because many of us don't have a viable alternative that does what BBF does.

Of course, we could assign the same function to another button other than the back button, but that isn't an alternative focusing method, it is the same exact method, but just doing it by pushing one button instead of another ...... which really doesn't make any difference other than ergonomics. . Personally, I would much rather have my thumb pumping that button because it is such a natural, comfortable action to conduct with my thumb, considering the way I grasp my camera bodies.

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TeamSpeed wrote in post #19000150
Consistency is king, once BBF is set up there isn't any reason to get off it for any kind of photography (minus eye af mode). ...

I haven't used eye af or the 1DX3's new face tracking.. etc.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but are you implying above that these options are NOT available when BBF is employed? I do understand that eye AF requires live-view. But face detect will not, right?

Personally, coming back to this a day after I asked the question of Charlie, I think his answers and replies are clear and well, accurate. Having fleshed out his responses, I have to say I agree.
going back to some earlier posts I made, my own experiences definitely reflect the idea that,

- On newer mirror-less bodies, AF on the shutter button is becoming more and more useful.
One can in fact interpret that truth to also mean that the usefulness or "need" for BBAF is being reduced (or diminished) as the usefulness of shutter AF increases. It's self evident that if one is improved, the balance has to shift.

None of the above statement means BBAF is less useful on it's own. Nor that it is still not the best option in many application with many cameras. It is more about shutter AF being made more useful in more situations than previously.

It appears that the nature of this thread, with multiple repliers has painted Charlie's reply in a bad light that may have been unfounded. I lumped him in with the "never BBAFers" I understand how his posts may illicit a strong response, he got me to respond that way too,. but to my eyes, a day later, after his clarifications, and answer to tom's question, I think to take it negatively, we really need to read into his posts ill an intent that today I am not seeing. Like any headline, this one was written to create a response.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19000383
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but are you implying above that these options are NOT available when BBF is employed? I do understand that eye AF requires live-view. But face detect will not, right?

That doesn't seem realistic. AF-ON is AF turned on, regardless of whether it's by half-press or the button AF-ON. In my mind all fancy AF support algorithms should work the same, regardless of how they are started.
But perhaps he means that with advanced head, face and eye tracking functions, you can skip bothering about being able to temporarily suspend AF due to obstructions etc. The camera will figure out what you are trying to catch anyway.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18999950
Charlie, what is the point of arguing against BBF by offering other methods to do the same?

- If it's valid to do it the way you describe, why is it not valid to do it using BBF?

- The method you illustrate above is only available to a select few that have access to a very limited number of lenses. So even the select few would be unable to use it most of the time with the other hundreds or EF mount lenses that don't have the buttons in your illustration.

Matched Grip, Traditional Grip.....