Capture One to DxO with DNG

This is a follow-up to my post, "Capture One & DxO PhotoLab3". I have reached out to DxO support but quite honestly, they were not very much help in that my questions were not directly answered. I opened the ticket with this,

"I am using Capture One 20.0.2 and would like to add DxO's PhotoLab3 part of my workflow. I am currently using the trial version of DxO PhotoLab3. From Capture One 20.0.2 on Windows 10, I select my Canon RAW file for editing. When I select 'Edit With' from Capture One, I select DxO PhotoLab3 and am asked to select a format. I select .DNG. PhotoLab3 opens, I see the image in the list but receive an error in the edit pane, "cannot load image data". I am looking for guidance as this would inhibit my workflow and DxO as a tool for me."

If I use the TIFF format in this same flow, it works fine but then I cannot use DxO's Prime Noise Reduction Engine as that will only work with RAW (DNG) files. It is my understanding that DNG is an "Open Source" (adobe) format that many applications can read. I asked that of DxO support and they only come back with, "Our Software has to be the first application in the workflow".

I guess I can reverse my order but then would be working with DNG files in Capture One and not sure if that limits the tools in Capture One? Any perspective is appreciated.

Thank you,

Tom

DNGs are RAW. RAW processing software packages aren't compatible*. If you process a RAW in one package it can't then be moved to another package (as a RAW) with those edits. So you will need to open the RAW/DNG in Dx0 and process it for NR then go to Capture One as a TIFF for further processing.

* Lightroom and ACR are compatible but that is because they are the same program with a different interface.

In Capture One, you have two choices, essentially, when you right-click on an image:

Edit with...

and

Open with ...

If you choose "Edit with...," Capture One will render your raw file to an RGB file and then pass that image file to the application you have chosen. If you choose "Open with....," Capture One will pass the raw file to the selected application - what you do with the raw file once in the that application is up to you.

The other thing to consider is that the DNG specification permits different types of DNG file variants. DxO, for example, has always produced a "linear" DNG as its output - this means that pixel operations like PRIME denoising can be exported from DxO as a DNG because that DNG is a "linear" - meaning demosaic'ed - DNG.

The workflow you are probably trying to achieve is:

1) Import your raw files into Capture One.
2) Choose the raw file you want to pass to DxO for PRIME noise reduction, lens corrections, etc.
3) Right-click on that file and choose "Open with..." (or, from the menus: Image > Open with...) and select DxO PhotoLab 3. This should launch PL3 and open the raw file in PL3.
4) Do your corrections to the raw file in PL3 (PRIME NR, lens corrections, anything you want, really).
5) Once you are satisfied, in PL3 choose: "Export to Application" (there should be a button in the lower right of the interface, otherwise: Image > Export > Export to Application) and choose Capture One 20. See the attached screenshot - in this dialog, you can specify DNG as the exported file type. This DNG will be a linear DNG that has already been demosaic'ed to include all of the adjustments you applied in PL3. But, it will still be a DNG, so you can use a DNG workflow with it.
6) Once you hit OK, the resulting (new) DNG file will be passed back to Capture One as: <filename>_openWith.dng.

There you go. Now you can continue editing your DNG in Capture One, with the PRIME corrections applied in DxO. If you really want to use Capture One for all of the actual tonal and color edits, then don't do them in DxO, just apply NR and lens corrections there, for example.

I hope this is what you were looking to do.

Good luck!

kirk

PS - When I select a raw file in Capture One and then use the "Edit with..." option, I can only export a TIFF or JPEG to the external application of my choosing. That is, DNG is not a choice. Are you sure that it is when you are following the steps you describe in your original post? See second screenshot. Maybe it is a Mac v PC thing.

tmwhitm wrote in post #19004551
This is a follow-up to my post, "Capture One & DxO PhotoLab3". I have reached out to DxO support but quite honestly, they were not very much help in that my questions were not directly answered. I opened the ticket with this,

"I am using Capture One 20.0.2 and would like to add DxO's PhotoLab3 part of my workflow. I am currently using the trial version of DxO PhotoLab3. From Capture One 20.0.2 on Windows 10, I select my Canon RAW file for editing. When I select 'Edit With' from Capture One, I select DxO PhotoLab3 and am asked to select a format. I select .DNG. PhotoLab3 opens, I see the image in the list but receive an error in the edit pane, "cannot load image data". I am looking for guidance as this would inhibit my workflow and DxO as a tool for me."

If I use the TIFF format in this same flow, it works fine but then I cannot use DxO's Prime Noise Reduction Engine as that will only work with RAW (DNG) files. It is my understanding that DNG is an "Open Source" (adobe) format that many applications can read. I asked that of DxO support and they only come back with, "Our Software has to be the first application in the workflow".

I guess I can reverse my order but then would be working with DNG files in Capture One and not sure if that limits the tools in Capture One? Any perspective is appreciated.

Thank you,

Tom

It looks like a DNG files created in Capture One may not be compatible

From DXO:

https://support.dxo.co​m …-DxO-PhotoLab-3-as-input-

"What DNG files are supported by DxO PhotoLab 3 as input?

DxO PhotoLab 3 supports DNG format files as long as they have been generated by Adobe Lightroom, or Adobe DNG Converter, and as long as the original RAW format is also supported in the program. DxO PhotoLab 3 will also accept DNG files created natively by supported cameras."

It is also not clear, even if you start with PhotoLab, that the DNG file will be compatible with Capture One.

The linear DNG from DxO can be passed back to, and edited in, Capture One 20. At least for the test I did for the previous post using a Fujifilm GFX 50s raw file passed to DxO via Capture One's "Open with..." command.

kirk

It is Kirk, thank you. I have tried it and the flow works. DxO's lens correction and Prime noise reduction is very good, much better than Capture One. DNG is an option for me when I 'edit with...'. I assume you upgraded to v20 of Capture One? If you haven't, I'd hold off a bit as it hasn't been very stable for many. I appreciate the info...

Thanks Dan, I did not realize the engine was the same...

This cracks me up. Getting off topic a bit but I find this more and more with support. You would think the tech would have just sent this to me. Done a little research, the company would have an internal Wiki or something to that effect? Errr,,,Thank you for sharing...at least there isn't any guessing...

I am running CaptureOne v20 - the window you show in your screenshot is not the dialog that gets generated for me when I choose - Edit with... and then select PhotoLab3 from the available items in the menu I am presented. Note that "DXO PhotoLab3" in the header of the dialog box that has dropped down from the title bar area running across the top of the image window.

I have all of the file formats in your screenshot for exporting an image (for example, in my Process Recipes, etc.).

kirk

Very interesting. The only difference I can see is that i am on Windows and it looks like you are using Apple. I have an iMac but don't have DxO installed there just yet. I right click the image in C 20, 'edit with', select DxO PhotoLab 3 & then the dialogue box below appears. I select DNG then 'edit variant'. I will have to get DxO installed on the iMac and test. Very interesting...

Then this is the error in DxO PhotoLab 3 once it opens.

Yeah, probably a Mac thing. Anywho- use Open with. All good!

Kirk

Could be. C1 windows and mac are more different than most windows/mac software.

kirkt wrote in post #19004952
In Capture One, you have two choices, essentially, when you right-click on an image:

Edit with...

and

Open with ...

If you choose "Edit with...," Capture One will render your raw file to an RGB file and then pass that image file to the application you have chosen. If you choose "Open with....," Capture One will pass the raw file to the selected application - what you do with the raw file once in the that application is up to you.

The other thing to consider is that the DNG specification permits different types of DNG file variants. DxO, for example, has always produced a "linear" DNG as its output - this means that pixel operations like PRIME denoising can be exported from DxO as a DNG because that DNG is a "linear" - meaning demosaic'ed - DNG.

The workflow you are probably trying to achieve is:

1) Import your raw files into Capture One.
2) Choose the raw file you want to pass to DxO for PRIME noise reduction, lens corrections, etc.
3) Right-click on that file and choose "Open with..." (or, from the menus: Image > Open with...) and select DxO PhotoLab 3. This should launch PL3 and open the raw file in PL3.
4) Do your corrections to the raw file in PL3 (PRIME NR, lens corrections, anything you want, really).
5) Once you are satisfied, in PL3 choose: "Export to Application" (there should be a button in the lower right of the interface, otherwise: Image > Export > Export to Application) and choose Capture One 20. See the attached screenshot - in this dialog, you can specify DNG as the exported file type. This DNG will be a linear DNG that has already been demosaic'ed to include all of the adjustments you applied in PL3. But, it will still be a DNG, so you can use a DNG workflow with it.
6) Once you hit OK, the resulting (new) DNG file will be passed back to Capture One as: <filename>_openWith.dng.

There you go. Now you can continue editing your DNG in Capture One, with the PRIME corrections applied in DxO. If you really want to use Capture One for all of the actual tonal and color edits, then don't do them in DxO, just apply NR and lens corrections there, for example.

I hope this is what you were looking to do.

Good luck!

kirk

PS - When I select a raw file in Capture One and then use the "Edit with..." option, I can only export a TIFF or JPEG to the external application of my choosing. That is, DNG is not a choice. Are you sure that it is when you are following the steps you describe in your original post? See second screenshot. Maybe it is a Mac v PC thing.

Hosted photo: posted by kirkt in
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forum: RAW, Post Processing & Printing

Hosted photo: posted by kirkt in
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forum: RAW, Post Processing & Printing

Wow Kirk, what a fantastic write up!

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19011568
Wow Kirk, what a fantastic write up!

Thank you!

kirk