Pros vs. amateurs vs. enthusiasts

With the recent release/announcements of new Canon bodies and seeing numerous posts with opinions on what segment of buyers these cameras are intended/best suited for, it starts me wondering this.

Who is the biggest buyer group for the likes of Canon and Nikon?

People say the 1DX3 is intended for professional sports photographers, shooters who earn their living using that tool. How many of these people exist? Is it enough for Canon to recover all costs and go on to make a profit if the bulk of this model sells mostly to pros?

Does Canon maybe sell 10 times as many Rebel cameras and that represents the main line of profit?

Could Rebel line sales support the R&D costs of everything else inside Canon (not cinema)?

Anybody here have a top level Canon executive they can text for insider answers?

Canon releases ZERO details about the mix of products which are manufactured/sold in any period...Rebel vs. nnD vs. 5Dn vv 1dn. Zero detail in camera industry analysis. Zero detail in Annual Report from Canon to the financial community.
So anything you might read is based upon speculation.

We know that a lot of well-off enthusiasts and amateur snapshooters buy 'pro' gear. Some if it is simply the desire to 'own the best' (from a technical spec point of view at that time) and some of it is bragging rights...even NOT being a 'pro'.
Some 'pros' get buy with owning 5Dn simply because they don't want to carry something so big and heavy, some do it because it makes no sense to them to spend so much money on a 1Dn when the 5Dn would do just fine.

As we have no details on sales of Rebel and the cost breakdown nor the R&D budget of the camera division alone, we have no idea of how much money Canon brings home on Rebel vs. the imaging business costs. We don't even what what FRACTION of Canon corporate R&D is spend in Imaging Products!

We do know, due to US government statistics, that in 2017 there were 49,320 'photographer' by occupation. That gives us no ideal how many people make money as photographers but who are occupationally classified as something else...if you look as 'wedding photographer' category, some are full time and have employment in that business, while others are 'weekend warrior' photographers who do something different to earn the bulk of their income.

chuckmiller wrote in post #19009859
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Could Rebel line sales support the R&D costs of everything else inside Canon (not cinema)?
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I think this was probably the case years ago, like from 2000 through 2012 or thereabouts. . But it seems to me that this is far from the case these days.

Today, I think that sales of Rebels can barely fund the R&D of the Rebels themselves, let alone the R&D on any more advanced models.

I barely know of anyone at all buying Rebel-level cameras. . 99% of the people I know just use their cell phone, and have no interest in any other camera at all. . The other 1% of the people that I know demand the very best still camera technology that is possible, and have no interest whatsoever in any kind of Rebel-level camera, whether it be DSLR or mirrorless.

In other words, I think there is an extreme polarization in the camera market that is very different from what we had a decade ago. . This is based on my own observations of hundreds, if not thousands, of people throughout various parts of the United States. . Globally, things may be much different (but I doubt it).

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another thread recently updated a poll of POTN members, indicating population of different model cameras.

• For all Rebel class digital cameras, there were 79 in this category
  
• For all FF digital cameras, there were 131 in this category, and 1D class bodies were 10% of this group.
  
• For all nnD and 7Dn cameras (APS-C, not Rebel) there were 170 in this category
  

Wilt wrote in post #19010135
another thread recently updated a poll of POTN members, indicating population of different model cameras.

• For all Rebel class digital cameras, there were 79 in this category
  
• For all FF digital cameras, there were 131 in this category, and 1D class bodies were 10% of this group.
  
• For all nnD and 7Dn cameras (APS-C, not Rebel) there were 170 in this category
  

IOW, 1Dn bodies are only 3% of the population of respondents (not counting APS-H), and Rebel-class was just about 21%
(note: above numbers exclude mirrorless from the analysis)

Please point me to that thread. I'd like to read through tit.

chuckmiller wrote in post #19011209
Please point me to that thread. I'd like to read through tit.

The thread name is somewhat misleading but at the same time appropriate to this specific post, which is the most recent tabulation of what POTN members have owned...

https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=19009912

I'm not sure that threads stats can be accurately parsed in that manner. That thread asked how many have you owned and then users listed the cameras that have passed through their hands. In my case that includes a 10D that I briefly owned simply as an emergency backup for a month, a T1i that I took in a package trade, and 20Ds and 30Ds that I owned briefly

Time for a new thread on that subject.

As an imperfect set of statistics, perhaps look at Flickr
According to them, over the past year, phone camera, namely Apple, have been most popular (I assume most uploads).
After that are Canon brand, followed by Nikon.
https://www.flickr.com​/cameras

Of the Canon, the 5D3, 5D4, 7D2, 6D, 80D, 70D, 5D2, 7D, 6D2, and T3i are the top 10 (in order). The point & shoot are towards the bottom of the list.
https://www.flickr.com​/cameras/canon/

I feel it covers enough time to be statistically significant, with a fairly large population of users. It is imperfect because it probably isn't completely representative, although more so than PoTN. Professionals may have their own web sites, or use a site other than flickr, for example. It also doesn't show new gear until it has become sufficiently popular to show up on their list.

I think the various priced camera bodies are available to boost the lens sales.

Interesting that in the Canon cameras on Flickr, the Rebel that is on the list is the older T3i (I actually have one)

duckster wrote in post #19138468
Interesting that in the Canon cameras on Flickr, the Rebel that is on the list is the older T3i (I actually have one)

I also have a t3I that I got in a bundle with a lens that I really wanted. I've used it a few times and honestly it's a very capable little camera more than enough to satisfy most casual users. It has the usual rebel drawback of an overly complicated and unnecessarily awkward user interface but once you learn the controls it's a decent little camera.

I've had some interesting conversations with representatives from Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, Leica, Hasselblad and Phase, and have worked a lot with a sales rep from a retailer who only deals with professional and commercial customers.

Professional users make up less than 10% of the total market for the likes of Canon, Nikon, and it's even less for Fuji, Sony and Panasonic, and maybe as little as 1 or 2% for Leica, if that.
Phase and Hasselblad used to sell primarily to Professionals, but Hasselblad in particular are picking up a lot of non-Proffesional customers and are building cameras specifically for the consumer, as the market is now more valuable than professional one.

Basically if professionals all stopped buying cameras the only brand that would likely fail is Phase. Hasselblad would suffer, but survive and the others would get through just fine, or see only a small reduction in sales volume.

But, all the brands like to be seen to be the best, and since professionals are perceived to buy and use only the best, they all make cameras to supply the demands of the professional market.