Coronavirus General Discussion (no politics, no flamewars!)

Grizz1 wrote in post #19029814
Had to agree with statements Jake made a few pages back. I hope this thread will stay civil and unlocked as it can be an instant way of hearing from our photography friends around the world. It has always seemed to me that most of us share our interest in photography though it's not usually our livelihood.

When some poo poo news sources because of biassed politics, sometimes I have to look the other way to prevent arguments.

Sorry to hear about your wife's Heart Attack, but good to hear she's recovering and doing well.

SkedAddled wrote in post #19029881
1.3% was the latest figure I read about, worldwide, as compiled from confirmed
or official sources.

Even so, it doesn't compare to the Spanish Flu of 1918, by a long shot.

We are at the early stages.

Have you noticed that the health experts and government officials around the world are practically unanimous in the need to deal strongly with this novel corona virus? You need to ask why this is.

Please have a look at this video. It is only 8 min long and explains the situation very well.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19029833
Over here everything has closed: public places like restaurants, bars, sportclubs, you name it. Many shops have closed as well, big chains as well as small shops. Today the government announced a total lock down of nursing homes to protect the elderly. Only the people who are dying are allowed company so they don't have to die alone.

The streets of Amsterdam are empty. Traffic is almost non-existent. Even in the daytime it's quiet. Only those that need to be on the road (delivering groceries, parcels etc.) are. People are urged to stay at home, work from home, to avoid contact with other people. No social gathering but social distancing. The Eurovision Songcontest, which was to be held here in the Netherlands as we won last year, has been canceled. Everything is being cancelled. Sportevents, concerts, you name it.

Strange times.
Scary times.

I have astma and am concerned. I home-isolate. I only go out for groceries. I wanted to have them delivered but that's not even possible now. Too great a demand. No new customers. Super markets are working hard to remedy this.

I had an appointment for an MRI. The hospital canceled the appointment. Let's hope I don't have a brain tumour...

Here's what Amsterdam looks like now. Filmed by Dutch film director Dick Maas, on a scooter, riding through the city centre. The heart of Amsterdam, normally full of people having a good time, now the streets are empty.

I hope you don't have a brain tumor, girl!

Scary times. Globalization!
Same here, dead still but still plenty of ignorant people who are in complete denial.
I'm not one of them.
Stay healthy and positive! I know: easily said than done.

Capn Jack wrote in post #19029883
How bad should it get before we do anything?

There's plenty of apparent 'doing' happening, but for how long?

Realistically, social cultures can't change or alter their traditions in a day,
or even a week or a month.

And realistically, how much would you expect the world's population to upend
their customs?

It's not infographic charts alone that drive this.
It's also demographics, cultures, and societies.

I would direct you back to tuberculosis as an example.
It's all but eradicated now, while it was devastating in its time.
Polio might be another example.

But when's the last time a flu-variant caused such a worldwide panic,
being a commonly-known variant of something we've encountered before?
The medical science already has familiarity with it, so the world is already
that much better in finding ways to treat and maybe stop it entirely.

Reported infections are on the rise in some places, while the epicenter(Wuhan)
now reports a steady decline, as cited by multiple sources.

It's simply not the apocalypse it's being made out to be.
People are surviving, recovering.
An elderly woman of around 103 years old in China
is reported as recovering successfully(Google News).

It's simply not the end of the world. Really.
Some will perish, and that is sad, but those who perish typically
are already afflicted by conditions which make them more vulnerable.
The same has always been said about the elderly and very young,
with the ecxeption that the very young appear to be far less-affected
by this current strain of the virus.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19029833
Over here everything has closed: public places like restaurants, bars, sportclubs, you name it. Many shops have closed as well, big chains as well as small shops. Today the government announced a total lock down of nursing homes to protect the elderly. Only the people who are dying are allowed company so they don't have to die alone.

The streets of Amsterdam are empty. Traffic is almost non-existent. Even in the daytime it's quiet. Only those that need to be on the road (delivering groceries, parcels etc.) are. People are urged to stay at home, work from home, to avoid contact with other people. No social gathering but social distancing. The Eurovision Songcontest, which was to be held here in the Netherlands as we won last year, has been canceled. Everything is being cancelled. Sportevents, concerts, you name it.

Strange times.
Scary times.

I have astma and am concerned. I home-isolate. I only go out for groceries. I wanted to have them delivered but that's not even possible now. Too great a demand. No new customers. Super markets are working hard to remedy this.

I had an appointment for an MRI. The hospital canceled the appointment. Let's hope I don't have a brain tumour...

Here's what Amsterdam looks like now. Filmed by Dutch film director Dick Maas, on a scooter, riding through the city centre. The heart of Amsterdam, normally full of people having a good time, now the streets are empty.

Thanks for the video! Very special. And all the best to you.

SkedAddled wrote in post #19029881
1.3% was the latest figure I read about, worldwide, as compiled from confirmed
or official sources.

Even so, it doesn't compare to the Spanish Flu of 1918, by a long shot.

Sked, a good site to reference information on cases and death rates. I have been using this since EARLY January!!
https://gisanddata.map​s.arcgis.com …740fd4029942346​7b48e9ecf6

Although the death rate is 1-3.4% depending on region, its the infection rate which is disturbing, multiplying by 1.24 every second day.
As there is no known vaccine or cure (at this point in time) the number of cases requiring Medical treatment grows, until guess what, we run out of Medical treatment (like Italy has) and then the worst decisions have to be made. Who is treated, and who is sent to a "holding location" to stop infection and then pass away. Mass cremation is real and happening as we type.

Yes Spanish flu was in the order of magnitude, 27% of the world population infected. Death rate was 10-20% of those infected. Between 50-100 million people.

COVID-19 currently has no boundary to stop infection, its still early days on whether a "second wave" is possible which happened for Spanish Flu, and where the majority of deaths occurred.
We are in COVID-19's first wave, heaven helps us if we ever enter a second wave.

There are still too many unknowns, lots of mis-information (hell some of what I have typed could very well be wrong in the coming days/weeks).

SkedAddled wrote in post #19029892
There's plenty of apparent 'doing' happening, but for how long?

Realistically, social cultures can't change or alter their traditions in a day,
or even a week or a month.

And realistically, how much would you expect the world's population to upend
their customs?

It's not infographic charts alone that drive this.
It's also demographics, cultures, and societies.

I would direct you back to tuberculosis as an example.
It's all but eradicated now, while it was devastating in its time.
Polio might be another example.

But when's the last time a flu-variant caused such a worldwide panic,
being a commonly-known variant of something we've encountered before?
The medical science already has familiarity with it, so the world is already
that much better in finding ways to treat and maybe stop it entirely.

Reported infections are on the rise in some places, while the epicenter(Wuhan)
now reports a steady decline, as cited by multiple sources.

It's simply not the apocalypse it's being made out to be.
People are surviving, recovering.
An elderly woman of around 103 years old in China
is reported as recovering successfully(Google News).

It's simply not the end of the world. Really.
Some will perish, and that is sad, but those who perish typically
are already afflicted by conditions which make them more vulnerable.
The same has always been said about the elderly and very young,
with the ecxeption that the very young appear to be far less-affected
by this current strain of the virus.

There are people in Italy too, one of the hardest-hit countries, who are denying and who are obstructing. Many of those are being charged. It is necessary to protect the majority from those who might aggravate the situation.

https://www.theguardia​n.com …ting-lockdown-coronavirus

Butts wrote in post #19029897
There are still too many unknowns, lots of mis-information...

Therein lies the real kicker.

What with social media misinformation and the zealots, it's difficult to separate
the truth from the feces.

Please, everyone, DO NOT automatically believe what you see posted to the BookFace
and other sites!

SkedAddled wrote in post #19029892
...
It's simply not the apocalypse it's being made out to be.
People are surviving, recovering.
An elderly woman of around 103 years old in China
is reported as recovering successfully(Google News).

It's simply not the end of the world. Really.
Some will perish, and that is sad, but those who perish typically
are already afflicted by conditions which make them more vulnerable.
The same has always been said about the elderly and very young,
with the ecxeption that the very young appear to be far less-affected
by this current strain of the virus.

That's one way to look at it, but another, one that will affect everyone whether you contracted the virus or not is the damage to world economies. To put it in a photographic perspective, imagine if this lasts another 2~3 months. Many business were just hanging on in the best of times and many will fail. With fewer people working, countries will go into rebuilding mode. Photographers are being hammered right now but I suspect that after this passes, and it will, it may be years before people feel comfortable enough to hire an expensive photographer for a wedding or get portraits or senior pictures taken. There will be a lot less disposable income which will translate into fewer camera sales. The DSLR market has been crashing for the last 3 years or so. I suspect it will now be in a full nosedive.

I wish both federal and state governments would put a moratorium on foreclosures, breaches of contract and any other legal matters where penalties are imposed for failing to make timely payments, at least until this pandemic is over and for a reasonable time afterward, to allow everyone affected a real opportunity to recover.

This way people could keep their homes, apartments, businesses and vehicles without worry. It would also help to prevent major social collapse and unrest by maintaining the status quo until things can return to normal.

I haven't heard this idea discussed anywhere else yet. I'm sure others have considered it but it hasn't made it above the fold yet.

If you agree, feel free to share.

FTb wrote in post #19029916
I wish both federal and state governments would put a moratorium on foreclosures, breaches of contract and any other legal matters where penalties are imposed for failing to make timely payments, at least until this pandemic is over and for a reasonable time afterward, to allow everyone affected a real opportunity to recover.

This way people could keep their homes, apartments, businesses and vehicles without worry. It would also help to prevent major social collapse and unrest by maintaining the status quo until things can return to normal.

I haven't heard this idea discussed anywhere else yet. I'm sure others have considered it but it hasn't made it above the fold yet.

If you agree, feel free to share.

... and provinces.

Allowances are being made here to extend the validity of drivers licences, payment of utility bills, tax payments, and so on.

Yes, I think it is a win-win situation for almost everyone to prevent permanent losses from a temporary problem.

gonzogolf wrote in post #19029878
I'm a little frustrated at the number of outdoor recreational venues that are closed. In colorado springs they are closing the manitou incline, a popular hiking trail, an the city of denver has closed access to waterton canyon. Both of these venues epitomize social distancing as the participants are often solitary, or perhaps a couple of friends together. Certainly less than groups of ten that we've been warned to avoid.

I'm in favor of most of the restrictions on gatherings and limits on restaurants and bars but closing low density outdoor venues seems like overkill.

The problem that our leaders do not want to deal with is a logical selection of parks to close vs. remain open, it is easier and faster to simply categorize them all into a single group.

CA decided first to put into place the shelter-in-place into some counties surrounding the SF Bay.
Days later it decided to add two more counties near SF Bay.
One day after that it decided to put it into ALL counties in the state.

Was a staggered approach somehow better than all-at-once?!

Archibald wrote in post #19029919
... and provinces.

Allowances are being made here to extend the validity of drivers licences, payment of utility bills, tax payments, and so on.

Is Alberta also extending drivers licences? I wish we could have an announcement from Quebec on that soon... my own licence is expiring in a couple of weeks, and I cannot renew remotely.

FTb wrote in post #19029916
I wish both federal and state governments would put a moratorium on foreclosures, breaches of contract and any other legal matters where penalties are imposed for failing to make timely payments, at least until this pandemic is over and for a reasonable time afterward, to allow everyone affected a real opportunity to recover.

This way people could keep their homes, apartments, businesses and vehicles without worry. It would also help to prevent major social collapse and unrest by maintaining the status quo until things can return to normal.

I haven't heard this idea discussed anywhere else yet. I'm sure others have considered it but it hasn't made it above the fold yet.

If you agree, feel free to share.

I had the same though as well. I don't know how things are in other countries, but in the US, this is going to hurt a lot of people. The other ing I was thinking, is to suspend all trading. Those guys are going to really screw things up.