question of reach

Here is a question for my fellow bird photographers regarding gear and reach:

Which is better, upgrading the current 7D Mark 1 to a 7D Mk2 (or other) to work with a 1.4 teleconverter or saving my pennies for a longer prime lens?

My longest lens is the Canon 400mm f/5.6L prime (which I love).

Thanks for any recommendations you'd care to share.

Cheers.

Bang for your buck, I'd grab the 7D2. It's AF and sensor are a big step up from the 7D, BUT it's not much a difference in pixels on target.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure the 7D2 will give you very good AF with that lens and a 1.4x

Take my opinion for what you want, but I am very biased here. I absolutely love my 7D2, but the 7D did nothing for me.

I have both the 7D and 7DII. I agree that the Mk II version is better but I have also had good luck with birds and the 7D. I think the Mk II AF system is quite a bit better for BIF

Photo from duckster's gallery.
Image hosted by forum (1029834)

Mark IIs are plentiful and inexpensive on the used market. You should be able to sell your 7D and upgrade easily. To me, that upgrade is a no-brainer.

You can also continue saving for longer glass, as going from 400mm to 500mm does represent a significant jump up in price. However, if you don't mind the weight, used 500mm Mark Is have dropped considerably in price and even a Mark II is now in the $5K-ish range which is $3K less than new.

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19034799
Bang for your buck, I'd grab the 7D2. It's AF and sensor are a big step up from the 7D, BUT it's not much a difference in pixels on target.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure the 7D2 will give you very good AF with that lens and a 1.4x

Take my opinion for what you want, but I am very biased here. I absolutely love my 7D2, but the 7D did nothing for me.

Thank you, Jake.
I was leaning toward the 7D2 and it helps to know you have owned both and support this as an upgrade due to 7D1 limitations.
Since image quality is my goal, perhaps the 1.4x is not the direction for me.
Cheers.

duckster wrote in post #19034807
I have both the 7D and 7DII. I agree that the Mk II version is better but I have also had good luck with birds and the 7D. I think the Mk II AF system is quite a bit better for BIF

Gallery photo (hosted):
posted by duckster originally in forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Glad to hear, duckster
I generally shoot handheld with centerpoint focus and work on my technique for BIF.
Unless I have plentiful light, the 7D also lets me down in terms of image noise.
In those cases I switch to the 5D2 and crop as needed.
Thanks for the feedback.

Scrumhalf wrote in post #19034817
Mark IIs are plentiful and inexpensive on the used market. You should be able to sell your 7D and upgrade easily. To me, that upgrade is a no-brainer.

You can also continue saving for longer glass, as going from 400mm to 500mm does represent a significant jump up in price. However, if you don't mind the weight, used 500mm Mark Is have dropped considerably in price and even a Mark II is now in the $5K-ish range which is $3K less than new.

Good to know, Sam
The 2 step process should work for me with upgrading body first, and lens as funds become available
Most appreciated.

I have both the 7D & 7D2, and 400/5.6. I found the mk2 to be a definite, but not dramatic, improvement over the original 7d, mainly improved autofocus and a bit less noise at higher ISOs. I'm sure, however, there are upgraded features I just don't take advantage of.

I sometimes use a 1.4 with the 400/5.6, but find that autofocus performance is greatly degraded - it reduces the keeper rate of my BIF shots to the extent that in most cases I feel better off just dealing with the shorter reach without it.

One option you might want to consider is a 300/2.8 with a 2x.

jimmy_racoon wrote in post #19035106
Glad to hear, duckster
I generally shoot handheld with centerpoint focus and work on my technique for BIF.
Unless I have plentiful light, the 7D also ets me down in terms of image noise.
In those cases I switch to the 5D2 and crop as needed.
Thanks for the feedback.

The 7D should have a little less noise than a 1.6x crop from the 5D2 (the 7D2 has much less). Are you sure you aren't comparing at 100% pixel view, or comparing whole images downsized to the same size?

tomj wrote in post #19035122
I have both the 7D & 7D2, and 400/5.6. I found the mk2 to be a definite, but not dramatic, improvement over the original 7d, mainly improved autofocus and a bit less noise at higher ISOs. I'm sure, however, there are upgraded features I just don't take advantage of.

I sometimes use a 1.4 with the 400/5.6, but find that autofocus performance is greatly degraded - it reduces the keeper rate of my BIF shots to the extent that in most cases I feel better off just dealing with the shorter reach without it.

One option you might want to consider is a 300/2.8 with a 2x.

thanks, tomj
less noise would be great...anything over ISO 400 on the 7D1 is problematic
single birds are pretty easy using center point and low speed continuous-my aim is getting much better
(high speed continuous is great, I just lack patience going through all those images!)
flocks of birds seems to need f/8 or higher, so maybe using multiple focus points would lock-on better on the 7D2?
I'll keep the 300/2.8 and 2x in mind as well-cheers!

Heya,

Agreed, better AF, better sensor, better ISO handling, etc (the old 7D is a great old camera, but its files are really rough frankly, aggressive filtering and all that). Putting a 1.4x on a F5.6 lens on the old 7D is not what I would do, it'll struggle with that. You're better off getting a 7D2 or 1D IV for a body, for now, and saving pennies for a 500mm F4L (which will work great with a TC when needed). Or if on a budget big time, you could get a 150-600 flavor as they're still great in day light for reach on a modern body.

Very best,

jimmy_racoon wrote in post #19035160
thanks, tomj
less noise would be great...anything over ISO 400 on the 7D1 is problematic

That depends on a lot of things. 3200 in daylight where you fill the frame with your desired composition, and show at typical web image size with a good downsampling method shouldn't be all that noisy. Cropping hard at ISO 800 and then trying to sharpen the pixels, of course, could be worse, especially in shade, where the red channel can be extra noisy.

MalVeauX wrote in post #19035168
Heya,

Agreed, better AF, better sensor, better ISO handling, etc (the old 7D is a great old camera, but its files are really rough frankly, aggressive filtering and all that). Putting a 1.4x on a F5.6 lens on the old 7D is not what I would do, it'll struggle with that. You're better off getting a 7D2 or 1D IV for a body, for now, and saving pennies for a 500mm F4L (which will work great with a TC when needed). Or if on a budget big time, you could get a 150-600 flavor as they're still great in day light for reach on a modern body.

Very best,

much appreciated, MalVeauX
good thought to research the 1D IV as an option to 7D2
thanks for the recommendations on glass as well.

John Sheehy wrote in post #19035175
That depends on a lot of things. 3200 in daylight where you fill the frame with your desired composition, and show at web image size typical web image with a good downsampling method shouldn't be all that noisy. Cropping hard at ISO 800 and then trying to sharpen the pixels, of course, could be worse, especially in shade, where the red channel can be extra noisy.

great point, John
over-cropping is my problem, as filling the frame gets tough on certain species...
(been experimenting with portable blinds and patience to solve for that aspect)

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/2iHj​roE

owned at least 1/2 dozen Canon DSLR's. the 7D was by far the camera i owned for the shortest amount of time.