Wing position for BIF - what is preferred

avondale87 wrote in post #19046664
Paul you've conveyed what I couldn't, with photos, and being on the receiving end, so to speak, the viewer, they're all excellent and none would take first prize. I'd give it to them all.
That said I think the Bittern one is a fine example of that something extra, something different that makes it special.
But you really can't aim for that as I expect that happens mid flight so a frame had open mouth, others not.
Beautiful series Paul

Thank you Richard that's kind of you to say.......It is luck, being in the right place at the right time......I put a lot of my success down to Back Button Focusing and having your camera settings ready for something to fly past. I'm sure you agree with this having seen lots of your fabulous photo's. As soon as you get that initial focus and follow the bird along keeping your finger on the trigger you can't go wrong........he says

Archibald wrote in post #19046683
Art Morris has said wing up or wing down doesn't matter in general. I can't find the exact web page where he expressed that, but he indicates ambivalence in this page.

I agree with PCousins that there is much more to it than just up or down. The angle, action and pose matter more. Morris also says this.

And I agree with BirdsofBC that butt shots are not good - or, stated differently, pics of birds fleeing the photographer are not the best.

I agree Archibald......"pics of birds fleeing the photographer are not the best"........it's too late you missed your opportunity.
These type of photo's only really work if there is another reason to get the butt shot of a bird, an example of this is below where these 2 male Kingfishers were squabbling over the dominance of the strategically placed perch.

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …48139226243/in/​datetaken/

Kingfisher

Of the shots I have taken, my own personal favorites often have the wings in very unconventional positions, ie: to me, any idea of a perfect position would be anathema.

There was a HUGE trend (might still be going on) at NatureScapes,net in the mid 2000's reinforcing essentially a very small handful of individuals view on what makes a "PERFECT bird on a stick" shot, and it got to the point that ;

A: Any image that deviated from this self imposed norm was criticized
B: The images all looked alike and boring.

Here's some of my favorite wing shots,

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p598377313​/e344a3912

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p598377313​/e36605d8f

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p245759215​/e577f9c08

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p78285212/​e587a0568

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p78285212/​e587a0578

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p78285212/​e587a06f6

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p245759215​/e577f990a

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p245759215​/e577f9fca

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Just now I started watching a video that reminded me of this thread, and directly addresses the question asked in the OP.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=eBV3p2gTO_k

The discussion that is specific to wing position starts at about the 3:51 mark. . And of course Glenn and Jan concur with what just about every professional thinks, when it comes to the preferred wing position.


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That is a good video and answers the question. I have very few full wing from the top shots. Here are a couple

Jeff USN Photog 72-76 wrote in post #19357354
That is a good video and answers the question. I have very few full wing from the top shots. Here are a couple

Hosted photo: posted by Jeff USN Photog 72-76 in
./showthread.php?p=193​57354&i=i127235698
forum: Birds

Hosted photo: posted by Jeff USN Photog 72-76 in
./showthread.php?p=193​57354&i=i177392701
forum: Birds

That RWB shot in particular is superb!

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19357530
That RWB shot in particular is superb!

Thank you very much Jake, that means a lot to me.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #19356794
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Just now I started watching a video that reminded me of this thread, and directly addresses the question asked in the OP.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=eBV3p2gTO_k

The discussion that is specific to wing position starts at about the 3:51 mark. . And of course Glenn and Jan concur with what just about every professional thinks, when it comes to the preferred wing position.


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they pretty much said what i figured out myself, however i believe there are many exceptions too.

BirdsofBC wrote in post #19357875
they pretty much said what i figured out myself, however i believe there are many exceptions too.

It really is what looks good to you and what you like.

This shot is nothing special, took it yesterday at the pond, the mallards are coming back. But while a less preferred position and not that sharp I still like it.

Jeff USN Photog 72-76 wrote in post #19357890
It really is what looks good to you and what you like.

This shot is nothing special, took it yesterday at the pond, the mallards are coming back. But while a less preferred position and not that sharp I still like it.

Hosted photo: posted by Jeff USN Photog 72-76 in
./showthread.php?p=193​57890&i=i259211443
forum: Birds

if you are now arguing that any position is ok for a "nothing special" image, I don't know why we're discussing this anymore.

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The question being discussed in this thread is "what is preferred". . It is not about what can look really great at certain times. . It is about what we prefer the most. . In other words, if we could have any wing position we want, exactly and precisely how we want it, what would it be? . That was the only thing being discussed here.

Of course there are many many many wing positions that can look really great at certain times for certain photos. Saying that there is one, and only one, "best" wing position does NOT say or infer that any other position cannot make for a truly remarkable photo. . There are many world class bird in flight photos that do not have the wings in the most preferred position.

Just because a certain wing position results in a super great world class photo does not mean that that is a great wing position that we should strive to capture whenever we're photographing birds in flight. . It only means that it happened to work with the other aesthetics going on in that particular image.

But let's remember that the whole point of this thread wasn't about what wing positions can make for good photos. . It was about the very very best wing position, period.

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I agree that the best wing position is the position that shows the colours of a bird best and as those colours are usually to be found on the dorsal side, that’s how you want to capture your birds. Not so easy to do. It’s the reason I still also photograph birds from my apartment on the 3d floor because it gives me a unique shooting angle where I can capture birds in their full glory. My preferred bird to shoot this way are grey herons as they swoop in to land on one of the houseboats below where I live. One of my favourite heron shots taken this way is this one, in golden light. It’s a shot that would be nigh impossible to get from a different angle.

HOSTED PHOTO
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Photo from Levina de Ruijter's gallery.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19357971
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Gallery photo (hosted):
posted by Levina de Ruijter originally in forum: Birds

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That is really quite superlative, Levina! . Can't imagine any way that could be any better. . Absolutely love it!


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Tom Reichner wrote in post #19357975
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That is really quite superlative, Levina! . Can't imagine any way that could be any better. . Absolutely love it!

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Thanks very much, Tom!

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19357971
I agree that the best wing position is the position that shows the colours of a bird best and as those colours are usually to be found on the dorsal side, that’s how you want to capture your birds. Not so easy to do. It’s the reason I still also photograph birds from my apartment on the 3d floor because it gives me a unique shooting angle where I can capture birds in their full glory. My preferred bird to shoot this way are grey herons as they swoop in to land on one of the houseboats below where I live. One of my favourite heron shots taken this way is this one, in golden light. It’s a shot that would be nigh impossible to get from a different angle.

Gallery photo (hosted):
posted by Levina de Ruijter originally in forum: Birds

The next best wing position is wings down, not up. And no butt shots. Hate those. Although I posted one myself a while ago…

WOW!