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Thread started 22 Apr 2020 (Wednesday) 05:54
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Astrophotography under light pollution

 
Tareq
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Apr 22, 2020 05:54 |  #1

Hi all,

I just miss this forum as i started photography in the past and this site was my main site to use, but sounds i couldn't get far with my photography and with those manufacturers such as Canon and Nikon and now with others bringing every month more stuff to markets and i no longer able to buy more or upgrade, so i decided i am also no longer much interested in photography, had bad situations forced me to do it less and less until i felt like no point to keep going.

Just recently of few years ago [Since 3 years ago] something happened to me which led me to get into astrophotography, i wasn't sure if i should do astronomy as visual or as photography, but sounds my love for images and photography won over visual, so i started slowly, but with the time passing i found out it is more difficult than photography itself, but it is more fun, now i am not sure if this is also will last longer or i may do it for a while and then decide to stop it too.

I live in light pollution location, and it is known that it is very difficult to do this DSO kind of under this condition, it is possible and i have the tools, but it sounds i will never have amazing mind blowing results, only i can produce nice not bad results which i don't know for how long i will be happy doing it and nothing more, so does a light pollution a serious factor to make someone stop astrophotography or they don't care about it? And what is the expectation of the level of the images you want? Do you really think to have images same as done under dark skies?

From my sky, the sun, moon and planets are clear, so those i am not worry about at all, but for DSO targets, sound some nebulae is very possible, galaxies and clusters are a nightmare, even if it is possible it will be very difficult and the results won't be that much good maybe as from dark sites, and all said i have to do very very long time to match almost from dark, it means much longer nights to waste if those nights will be clear anyway, i love to do it, but it is always like that, we love it at first until several years when we realize that we can't go further any more either in buying stuff or in doing photography much better than previous years, what do you think?


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Toxic ­ Coolaid
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Apr 22, 2020 16:15 |  #2

I image from a RED zone and with the right gear you can get some very nice images. I pack up and go to a GREEN zone when I can and obviously get my best images there. My Astrobin site shows where I took the images from. Kingsport is my home RED zone. Nickelsville is my dark GREEN zone. https://www.astrobin.c​om/users/Toxic_Coolaid​/ (external link)

I also have a bunch on Flickr
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/96836598@N03/ (external link)

With astrobin you can search for people with similar equipment.

A guy on Youtube named "Astrobackyard" will show you some great stuff that us usually done from his severely light polluted backyard. He does have some pircy equipment which is often on loan.

It can get expensive. My current favorite setup is sitting around the $5500 figure. However a very decent setup can be done for $2000-$2500 and you probably already have some of that equipment. You will be able to find all the help you need from people on here.

Good luck




  
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Tareq
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Apr 22, 2020 17:44 |  #3

Toxic Coolaid wrote in post #19051299 (external link)
I image from a RED zone and with the right gear you can get some very nice images. I pack up and go to a GREEN zone when I can and obviously get my best images there. My Astrobin site shows where I took the images from. Kingsport is my home RED zone. Nickelsville is my dark GREEN zone. https://www.astrobin.c​om/users/Toxic_Coolaid​/ (external link)

I also have a bunch on Flickr
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/96836598@N03/ (external link)

With astrobin you can search for people with similar equipment.

A guy on Youtube named "Astrobackyard" will show you some great stuff that us usually done from his severely light polluted backyard. He does have some pircy equipment which is often on loan.

It can get expensive. My current favorite setup is sitting around the $5500 figure. However a very decent setup can be done for $2000-$2500 and you probably already have some of that equipment. You will be able to find all the help you need from people on here.

Good luck

Nice Astrobin and Flickr images, you did nice job, but when i look at your gallery and look at some others i feel like yours isn't that good, because i see others getting lots of IOTD and Top Pick images, and even when you open their galleries you just say "WOW", that is where i want to reach, and i don't know if that is only because they do under darker skies or using higher end gear or have great processing skills, i want to reach really high level as i can.

My equipment is average, not that great high end and not very cheap normal ones, i have closer equipment to you, have good mount and nice mono cooled camera like yours but from QHY brand and i even have Astrodon/Chroma 1.25" filters [5nm Ha and the rest is 3nm], but i still feel there are many things i need, but i have to know if doing imaging under light pollution will never help me to get any high quality imaging then i will decide to keep going or not.


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Toxic ­ Coolaid
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Toxic Coolaid. (7 edits in all)
     
Apr 23, 2020 23:59 as a reply to  @ Tareq's post |  #4

Sorry to dissappoint ppoint, but you asked about light polluted imaging. I have just purchased my better equipment and am still learning how best to use it. I enjoy seeing my progression of my astro work over the years. So I leave them all on there. I have just changed over from DSLR's to the ASI1600MM and ASI071MC. Observing sites and integration time have a lot to do with finial images, as well as your budget.
Also, I don't have access to really good dark sites or the time to spend on multi night imaging. Plus my processing skills are mediocre at best. I've really only had a limited # of good imaging sessions in a Green zone.

https://astrob.in/ja3d​8c/0/ (external link) (ASI1600MM)

and probably my favorite image to date https://astrob.in/e1hn​cv/0/ (external link) (ASI071MC).

You may want to look at the imaging location, equipment and intrigration time of the IOTD awards. I have one myself. If you want perfect images just rent time from Deep Sky West. Great equipment in a great location. Or maybe you should stick to lunar and planetary imaging. The DSO imaging I have found of yours is, rudimentary. Simply throwing money at it won't necessarily make it better.

I guess I'd suggest A few people on Youtube. Astrobackyard, Chuck's Astrophotography, Ray's Astrophotography, and Dylan O'Donnell. I find their information very helpful. Try not to insult them.

Hopefully these guys can be of some help to you.




  
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Tareq
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Apr 24, 2020 10:41 |  #5

Toxic Coolaid wrote in post #19051984 (external link)
Sorry to dissappoint ppoint, but you asked about light polluted imaging. I have just purchased my better equipment and am still learning how best to use it. I enjoy seeing my progression of my astro work over the years. So I leave them all on there. I have just changed over from DSLR's to the ASI1600MM and ASI071MC. Observing sites and integration time have a lot to do with finial images, as well as your budget.
Also, I don't have access to really good dark sites or the time to spend on multi night imaging. Plus my processing skills are mediocre at best. I've really only had a limited # of good imaging sessions in a Green zone.

https://astrob.in/ja3d​8c/0/ (external link) (ASI1600MM)

and probably my favorite image to date https://astrob.in/e1hn​cv/0/ (external link) (ASI071MC).

You may want to look at the imaging location, equipment and intrigration time of the IOTD awards. I have one myself. If you want perfect images just rent time from Deep Sky West. Great equipment in a great location. Or maybe you should stick to lunar and planetary imaging. The DSO imaging I have found of yours is, rudimentary. Simply throwing money at it won't necessarily make it better.

I guess I'd suggest A few people on Youtube. Astrobackyard, Chuck's Astrophotography, Ray's Astrophotography, and Dylan O'Donnell. I find their information very helpful. Try not to insult them.

Hopefully these guys can be of some help to you.

I still didn't get your answer or point really.

Those IOTD mostly or mainly done from better skies and better equipment, or from normal skies and average equipment but crazy processing skills, if your IOTD means the Andromeda one then it was from 2012, almost 8 years, i saw so many average results got IOTD long time ago, i am sure even my MOON and planets will have IOTD if i did them 6-10 years ago.

I know those guys, they are also doing their jobs, experimenting, doing nice results over the years, and they are under light pollution, but can we compare them to those who are either renting pro remote observatories or ones with premium high end equipment? Mostly those with premium also have nice skills so that they bought high end, and they can access dark skies or they move to their, so i ask myself, if i don't get access to dark skies and have high end equipment, will i get IOTD or APOD like results then? I will keep upgrading my equipment to the point that i can't upgrade anymore, but i don't want to reach that point and i find out that it was pointless.

I am also enjoying my setup now and my improvement, and many people liked my Moon and planetary images, this is not a big deal as planetary imaging doesn't care about light pollution much, it cares about seeing condition which is not a problem for me, but i don't know how much far i can go with DSO under my sky then and if it is worthy to upgrade gear for it.


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Toxic ­ Coolaid
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Post edited over 3 years ago by Toxic Coolaid. (3 edits in all)
     
Apr 24, 2020 13:07 as a reply to  @ Tareq's post |  #6

I guess my answer is that yes, astrophotography can be done with light pollution. Equipment and the amount of time spent can improve images from light polluted areas. My point is that a dark sky makes all the difference. The same equipment can not achieve as good of a result in a light polluted area as it can with a nice dark sky. The rest is left up to you. I am able to travel to a dark site maybe 8-10 times a year. I now have some better equipment that allow me to image much more often here from home achieving much better results. But nowhere near as good from a dark site. I enjoy the imaging process and I've been happy with my results.

I look back at my old images and laugh. Like the IOTD Andromeda. It's crap, but it made me very excited back then. I see people on here that have their 1st DSO image of part of Orion. I remember back when I got my 1st picture with color and some structure of Orion while hand holding a point and shoot through an eyepiece. I got more excited back then than I ever do now. I congratulate them and encourage them to have fun with the hobby. And give them advice if they want it. I've gotten tons of advice from forums, and still do.

Use your equipment and give it a try. See what you get. You are probably already set up for small objects like galaxies. And it's galaxy season now. You'll need very good guiding with a long focal length. M51 and M101 are in the perfect part of the sky right now. People get some great results from light polluted areas, but it could always be better from a non light polluted area. Look at the specs of the images you like and see how and where they were acquired. Find people with similar equipment to yours and see what their results are. They may be using a filter that makes a big difference to the end result. Boils down to sky, stuff and skills, with the sky being the most important. Otherwise professional observatories wouldn't be located where that are.

If you're happy with what you get that's great. If your not happy, you won't enjoy it. IOTD and APOD's are pretty high bars to set and will be difficult to achieve from a light polluted sky.

This is what I started with and was very excited when I took these.

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Tareq
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Apr 25, 2020 13:01 |  #7

Toxic Coolaid wrote in post #19052271 (external link)
I guess my answer is that yes, astrophotography can be done with light pollution. Equipment and the amount of time spent can improve images from light polluted areas. My point is that a dark sky makes all the difference. The same equipment can not achieve as good of a result in a light polluted area as it can with a nice dark sky. The rest is left up to you. I am able to travel to a dark site maybe 8-10 times a year. I now have some better equipment that allow me to image much more often here from home achieving much better results. But nowhere near as good from a dark site. I enjoy the imaging process and I've been happy with my results.

I look back at my old images and laugh. Like the IOTD Andromeda. It's crap, but it made me very excited back then. I see people on here that have their 1st DSO image of part of Orion. I remember back when I got my 1st picture with color and some structure of Orion while hand holding a point and shoot through an eyepiece. I got more excited back then than I ever do now. I congratulate them and encourage them to have fun with the hobby. And give them advice if they want it. I've gotten tons of advice from forums, and still do.

Use your equipment and give it a try. See what you get. You are probably already set up for small objects like galaxies. And it's galaxy season now. You'll need very good guiding with a long focal length. M51 and M101 are in the perfect part of the sky right now. People get some great results from light polluted areas, but it could always be better from a non light polluted area. Look at the specs of the images you like and see how and where they were acquired. Find people with similar equipment to yours and see what their results are. They may be using a filter that makes a big difference to the end result. Boils down to sky, stuff and skills, with the sky being the most important. Otherwise professional observatories wouldn't be located where that are.

If you're happy with what you get that's great. If your not happy, you won't enjoy it. IOTD and APOD's are pretty high bars to set and will be difficult to achieve from a light polluted sky.

This is what I started with and was very excited when I took these.

Hosted photo: posted by Toxic Coolaid in
./showthread.php?p=190​52271&i=i229622360
forum: Astronomy & Celestial


Hosted photo: posted by Toxic Coolaid in
./showthread.php?p=190​52271&i=i255570400
forum: Astronomy & Celestial

I have to be honest, i am really enjoying what i am doing so far, it is just i learn fast but i do things very very slow and sometimes i never do until i make setup perfect first then try, and when i try and fail or see issues i just stop long again and try over again, so this is making me like i will never reach so far until very long time spent or wasted trying to perfect everything, and worse is if i wait to buy something and it will take time to afford it so i miss the opportunity of nice clear nights only because i am waiting and keep waiting and most of my results i am not satisfied, the moon is the only thing i am very happy about it, while with nebulae i am just already started as i figured out how to use guiding after 2 years of trying, imagine, 2 years only to make guiding work because of very stupid mistake, while others don't take more than 1 week or 1 month to make that guiding working.

Another thing is, others keep imaging even with less equipment and getting very nice amazing results and i keep dreaming to outperform their gear and results with more equipment, not saying i can't do things with my current, but because i started in photography and i did came to this situation before about keep upgrading and doing things with better equipment, it really did, so that i keep doing that into astro as well, i don't like to keep using like cheap affordable gear while some started with cheap and just not long they upgrade and keep upgrading and their results improving significantly while they are upgrading, some do it under darker skies and some under light pollution, and in my case i feel i can do nice in light pollution with more gear as it will ease my imaging, others don't mind to spend hours and weeks to do it for one target, but for me 1-2 nights is my maximum, so if i didn't make my equipment ready for that then i doubt that i will spend 4 months on 4 targets only and still not that good, to me that sucks really, others have patience for years even, and i know under LP it needs longer time than usual, so it is kind of that people with better gear in better skies do it faster or better that they can keep it and moving to more targets, while me i still struggle with one target which reflects on all other targets i try except planetary, so i don't know if light pollution will slow me down too much then i don't have that much long patience or i must improve my gear so it helps me under LP better way to keep me going.

What i want to say is very simple, if i can have a better gear or say high end then it will force me to keep going even under bad situations, sometimes the happiness or the satisfaction is with the type of gear we have and not what those gear can give us, i have Hasselblad, believe me i never produce one pro image out of it, but until today i am still happy that i have the name Hasselblad that so many still dream about it, a digital medium format, and also this is a bad habit in me, i look at so so many sites and people experiences, when i see someone started with something affordable nice and he upgrades/keep upgrading and others also then i always ask myself, if people are happy and skilled enough, why they upgrade, there is no another reason they upgrade if they are that good unless the current gear they have which is really good isn't satisfying them anymore or they look for more, so i really don't like to make myself not deserving while i can afford or not, and i learn always with anything, it is no point that i learn with $400-1000 telescope and not $6000 one because i don't know or it is too early, i can learn with $6000 if i can afford it even from beginning, and the worse if i spend time with something like $500-1500 telescope for a while and when i want to upgrade to premium or high end they say no not yet, so should i wait 10 years for example? I feel the only way i can be happy doing imaging under light pollution is by having super quality gear as much i can, if i didn't buy nice quality gear in photography back then i may stop photography almost after 4-5 years of starting no doubt, so now i am in the FORTH year of astro, there is improvement but not enough and it is too late while others already improved better in 1-2 years ago after me, so i hope you got my point, i envy you that you are happy with what you do regardless whatever you have and also drive or access to nice skies.


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Feb 06, 2021 16:20 |  #8

Light pollution can be a pain even in relatively rural locations.
My brothers place is in rural France miles from any towns yet pollution was still apparent as can be seen in this shot of one of the Perceids

IMAGE: https://live.staticflickr.com/854/42988718325_c899e7b4a2_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/28uL​qfH  (external link) shooting star + lightning (external link) by Mike Kanssen (external link), on Flickr

I won't class the distant storm as light pollution :)

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Feb 07, 2021 19:51 |  #9

I live in San Francisco, so do 100% of my images from bortle 8-9 skies.

I have made a few videos to do comparisons on some of the filters I've used before. Honestly, without filters, I don't have a hobby... Hahaha

I hope these will help people if you are interested! :)

Duo-Narrowband filters, Optolong L-eNhance vs Optolong L-eXtreme:
https://youtu.be/XSkAy​EfBwKM (external link)

General Purpose, Broadband, Light Pollution Filter, IDAS LPS D1 vs IDAS LPS D2 vs Optolong L-Pro:
https://youtu.be/fZUS2​KomCgw (external link)

Using my Optolong L-eXtreme under 100% Full Moon:
https://youtu.be/2cWxa​ziv1ck (external link)




  
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nightskycamera
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Apr 19, 2021 12:45 |  #10

I also do all my imaging from the city under the Bortle class 8 skies.
Filters really help to reduce the effect of light pollution.

awong101 is correct that without the filters it's very hard to image from the city.

I don't use filters for broadband objects, like galaxies or emission nebulae. But in this case just need to get more subs.

The following images were all taken from the city:
https://nightskycamera​.com/gallery/ (external link)


My astrophotography gallery
https://nightskycamera​.com/gallery/ (external link)

  
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Tareq
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Apr 27, 2021 20:12 |  #11

petrochemist wrote in post #19191746 (external link)
Light pollution can be a pain even in relatively rural locations.
My brothers place is in rural France miles from any towns yet pollution was still apparent as can be seen in this shot of one of the Perceids
QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/28uL​qfH  (external link) shooting star + lightning (external link) by Mike Kanssen (external link), on Flickr

I won't class the distant storm as light pollution :)

Ok, i am not giving up anyway


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Tareq
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Apr 27, 2021 20:54 |  #12

nightskycamera wrote in post #19225039 (external link)
I also do all my imaging from the city under the Bortle class 8 skies.
Filters really help to reduce the effect of light pollution.

awong101 is correct that without the filters it's very hard to image from the city.

I don't use filters for broadband objects, like galaxies or emission nebulae. But in this case just need to get more subs.

The following images were all taken from the city:
https://nightskycamera​.com/gallery/ (external link)

awong101 wrote in post #19192325 (external link)
I live in San Francisco, so do 100% of my images from bortle 8-9 skies.

I have made a few videos to do comparisons on some of the filters I've used before. Honestly, without filters, I don't have a hobby... Hahaha

I hope these will help people if you are interested! :)

Duo-Narrowband filters, Optolong L-eNhance vs Optolong L-eXtreme:
https://youtu.be/XSkAy​EfBwKM (external link)

General Purpose, Broadband, Light Pollution Filter, IDAS LPS D1 vs IDAS LPS D2 vs Optolong L-Pro:
https://youtu.be/fZUS2​KomCgw (external link)

Using my Optolong L-eXtreme under 100% Full Moon:
https://youtu.be/2cWxa​ziv1ck (external link)


nightskycamera wrote in post #19225039 (external link)
I also do all my imaging from the city under the Bortle class 8 skies.
Filters really help to reduce the effect of light pollution.

awong101 is correct that without the filters it's very hard to image from the city.

I don't use filters for broadband objects, like galaxies or emission nebulae. But in this case just need to get more subs.

The following images were all taken from the city:
https://nightskycamera​.com/gallery/ (external link)

I will do my best in the city, i came a long way into it, i am using a mono camera, it has been a long year last year, and i bought more equipment to help me, so i will see how can i put them all in use for the best under this condition in my area.

Thank you all


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