Canon EOS R5 Unite and Discuss!

WilsonFlyer wrote in post #19163842
Please tell me about all the renowned landscape and architectural photographers that rely on the 1DX III for their livelihood. It's a sports and wildlife camera. And it's great for that. But it's not what most people are going to use for studio portrait and landscape work, and more importantly; it isn't an "every man's" every day camera, which is exactly what the R6 was supposed to be, which is also more my point.

An argument about a 20 meg sensor in 2020 is nothing more than an exercise in throwing intellectual punches at each other. At the end of the day, canon (little "c") threw it out there as a tease for what you could have had, had you chosen to give them $2000 more. It's the proverbial jump a little higher. You almost had it. A 20 meg sensor in 2020 is ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is that marketing convinced so many how great it is.

The 1DX III is a fine camera, I'm sure. I'm not at that level, and I never will be, nor do I desire to be. It's not even made for the kind of photography I do. The R6 is a fine camera as well, but it isn't for me. I want what it should have been, which is the R sensor in the R6 body/firmware. I may never have it, but I won't be jumping up to touch a string that someone else just keeps jerking up every time I jump. I've played that game for over 40 years. That's long enough.

You said it, the 1DXIII is a sports and wildlife camera. Exactly! So what is your problem with it? If you shoot landscapes or portraits then a 1DXIII or R6 is not for you. So get a different camera. Get the R5. Or if you consider the R5 too expensive, a rip off, or whatever, then get a nikon (little "n") or a sony (little "s"). But stop bashing Canon (big "C") for not giving you what you want.

As a great philosopher once said "You can't always get what you want". Such is life. Get over it.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19163867
You said it, the 1DXIII is a sports and wildlife camera. Exactly! So what is your problem with it? If you shoot landscapes or portraits then a 1DXIII or R6 is not for you. So get a different camera. Get the R5. Or if you consider the R5 too expensive, a rip off, or whatever, then get a nikon (little "n") or a sony (little "s"). But stop bashing Canon (big "C") for not giving you what you want.

As a great philosopher once said "You can't always get what you want". Such is life. Get over it.

No need to be condescending. My R works just fine for me. Thanks for asking. So everybody else can badmouth the sensor size on the R6 but I can't? Got it. So says you. Have a magical day.

OK you two, let's rein it in now please. No need to wreck this thread over your difference of opinion.

'Tis the Season to be Jolly..... just a reminder....

Photo from SYS's gallery.
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CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19163839
This is an example of the eye af doing what no Canon could do before.. I realize those in this thread already accept this as commonplace, but to me it is still quite mind blowing.

From a long series of shots taken with electronic shutter of a gull fly by, every image in the series was usable from a technical point of view, with the gull in sharp focus.

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p217225980​/ef3297f4d

It's this 2nd images here, where the wing had just become the closest aspect of the subject, but the Camera continues to track the eye rather than jump to create the infamous "wingtip focus" shot we are so accustomed to. Amazing.

IMAGE LINK: https://jakehegnauer.z​enfolio.com/p217225980​/ef3297f4e

Dan
Phenomenal AF! that is why I keep lusting after a R5 or R6 (R6 not enough reach, i.e. 20mp) I am reach challenged I am normally shooting 100-200 yards to the birds, once in a while, maybe every other week I get one close so still watching. My 90D has much fewer hits but can get out there and get good results when I DO nail it. Keep em coming...

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19163701
Based on the half price R6, I don't think you have to worry. That $2.5K body has everything the R5 has for AF, and it too can keep pace with the $6.5K 1DXIII!

So are you telling us that the R6 is as good as the 1Dx3 for AF ?? You own both bodies. I know you are excited about the R6 but im reading a little different evaluations from others. I am getting the R6. I see things I absolutly like. How are you getting around black EVF when coming on startled wildlife, wake up times and things of this nature that wont affect the 1Dx3 ?

I plan to have the R6 mounted on the 500F4 a lot and for hand hold needs, I think its going to be the 1Dx2

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19163596
Or get one here. Can't believe no one has jumped on these yet!

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1518781

Who knows, but for me I need to know that I can return it within the return window if I don't like it.

umphotography wrote in post #19164124
...How are you getting around black EVF when coming on startled wildlife, wake up times and things of this nature that wont affect the 1Dx3 ?

Just tap the shutter. The same thing I always did when the DSLR went to sleep on me. There's no delay, it pops right on. You can also tap the Menu button and it wakes up the camera without delay.

Methodical wrote in post #19164138
Just tap the shutter. The same thing I always did when the DSLR went to sleep on me.

All it takes. I was out shooting yesterday and when I suddenly saw a couple of mallards flying into my view, I tap the shutter while bringing the camera up to my eyes. Absolutely no time wasted and no opportunity lost.

So I am having experienced wildlife people tell me its not that fast and its not as good. Here is one here at POTN


FROM KICKFIPKID687---He is not the only one

""I've rented / tried the R5 twice now. Once with drop in filter EF-R adapter, since they didn't have the normal one.
Second time my buddy rented and let me use it for some days/split the cost. I tried with base adapter then and also RF 100-500.

Comparing to 1DXIII, overall it's a pretty nice body. But still has some issues/quirks and things to work out.
The animal eye AF can work really great, and is def. not a gimmick/can be super nice to have. Can work awesome for smaller birds/closer ducks and whatnot.

But when trying to Track BIF, my results were a bit all over the place. I was testing multiple lenses on the R5, with and without extenders.
I mainly use an older 500 F/4 L IS, which is showing it's age in terms of AF speed, so maybe not the best test. But it did perform really great on the R5 sometimes.

The R5 could sometimes lock onto birds within 1/4 second and hold as it flew over water and zig-zagging all over, using the full sensor/DPAF to track it.
However... sometimes when a bird was flying on a blue sky, or overcast sky, or even in other situations, it would just hunt and not lock... I would try 3-5 times as the bird was flying around me, and no matter what, it just wasn't having it, which was extremely frustrating. Even perched birds, sometimes it would lock behind the bird and not want to re-focus back to the subject, and i had to force it.
Also, using the RF 100-500, the focus could be extremely fast, as fast as the a9II and 200-600 when i tested that setup. But again, it would hunt sometimes/not want to lock, even with that native lens...
By comparison, the a9II with 200-600 almost never hunted for me in my tests, and would almost always "lock" the bird, although that camera still had plenty of out of focus shots as well.

As far as sensor quality, the R5 definitely is one of Canons best. I expected the noise to be more similar to my older 7DII, but it's actually very similar to the 1DXIII. You can crank the shadows like crazy, 4-5 stops in some cases, and see basically almost no color noise or anything. By comparison, the a9II has really HORRIBLE noise in the shadows sometimes, even uncompressed Raw at iso 250 or something. Can get super nasty green shadows/artifacts when only doing a slight shadow boost and nothing else. It seems like Canon has caught up/past Sony in some ways from what I've seen anyways.

Battery life on the R5 was pretty decent, but not super amazing. The issue though with that is.... if you're using mechanical shutter, your FPS drops from like 12 to 4-5 when your battery is 60% or less...
I was out shooting harriers/owls and suddenly my FPS just tanked and the EVF was super laggy and I didn't know what happened. Then realized/saw that my battery was lower and that's why...
You can switch to silent shutter to get 20FPS at full battery and I think maybe 12-14 at lower battery, but then your also in 12Bit Raw, not 14, so can't push the files as much.

On older firmware, not sure about now, I was also able to "overheat" the camera when I was shooting in silent shooting mode, doing short burts for 15-20 min.
I wanted to record a video of an osprey extremely close that I had been photographing, but then i couldn't because the camera locks you out of video then, and you have to power off the camera completely to let it cool...
This was even in 65F weather, with constant 10MPH winds, so definitely not HOT by any means.

Some other quirks of the camera are things like, EVF being black when you might need to react to a bird flying by (same as any other mirrorless), and then you go to take a shot and you can't see anything.
So you have to wait for the camera to wake up, or force the EVF to stay on, but then your battery life is going to drop really fast.

I also noticed if you are doing bursts, even with the Extreme PRO 128GB CFExpress card (1200MB/s write), the R5 can be buffering in some cases, and if you want to zoom back into 100% view on the rear LCD/EVF, it blocks you from doing it, until the buffer clears...which is super weird... makes no sense. When shooting photos i mean/not reviewing images.

Also the EVF I was seeing some kind of harsh glare/flare when the sun was somewhat behind me, making it hard to see what I was doing sometimes, especially when the EVF brightness is not that "bright" in daylight, even at its maximum setting. I saw more flare/glare in that finder than the 1DX for sure or other cameras I've used, not sure why.
Going to the 1DX Optical viewfinder is MUCH bigger and brighter and was almost night and day in that situation for me/much easier to see. But could be personal preference /some may not mind it.

All in all, i'm still tempted to get it, mainly for more "Reach" and eye af/other features, when it works well. But it's definitely not cheap and still has those quirks/issues I mentioned where the 1DX doesn't show that.

The 1DX you can still rip off shots and not worry about overheating/buffering/​etc. Got way way longer battery life, dual CF Express, and so on.
Overall a more solid camera i feel like, or will be ready to go when you are. Just is too bad it's only 20MP, or that's my biggest "issue" with it yet. After coming from a 7DII with that longer "reach", even using my 500 + 1.4x on the 1DX, I'm losing some detail. Although getting more keepers, so that's a higher priority/better deal i guess."


So I see this at Fred Miranda and other sites....why are very experienced photographers telling a different story ??

flipkids post seemed extremely friendly and non biased towards mirrorless cameras

umphotography wrote in post #19164127
my 1Dx2 is a 20 meg sensor....I shoot and frame and can easily print 16x24s...all day long..get more reach or improve capture skills,,,,20mp is more than enough

I'm a little strange in that I have an HP z3100 in my office. I enjoy printing a lot of wall art that I change frequently around my home. The printer is capable of 44" width and unlimited length basically. I do a lot of 36"x y panoramas and a lot of 36" prints. It's just my thing. One of these days, I'm going to get my hands on a nice R6 landscape RAW and print one out just for the fun of it, but I've GENERALLY found that the 24 meg sensors on my Sony APS-Cs tend to be about the bottom of the line of what I find acceptable. I understand that's very subjective and I get that. My R and my M6 Mk II are really the sweet spot as far as printing large size prints when it comes to megapixels. I know the R5 would be even better, but it's simply out of my price range as a hobbyist.

I'm not badmouthing the sensor in the R6 or certainly not the 1Dx Mk III. I just expected a little more out of the R6 and that was my only point. I fear what I wrote has been taken to an extreme in context when I have only said what hundreds before me have said already. I think that since the R5 is a 45 megapixel camera, we had the right to expect a little more out of the R6 when it comes to megapixel count. They'll fix it in the Mk II I'm sure. I just hate that we have to wait for 2 more years to fix what should have been in the initial release IMHO.

Methodical wrote in post #19164138
Just tap the shutter. The same thing I always did when the DSLR went to sleep on me. There's no delay, it pops right on. You can also tap the Menu button and it wakes up the camera without delay.

I'm not really noticing much difference in "ready to shoot time" with the R5 compared to the 90D, but of course, the 90D's viewfinder is "on" all the time, whereas I have to wait to see through the R5 at all, before it is ready. After over a month with the R5, this still surprises me sometimes, because most of my memory associated with lifting a body of this size and shape is with DLSR OVF.

umphotography wrote in post #19164124
So are you telling us that the R6 is as good as the 1Dx3 for AF ?? You own both bodies. I know you are excited about the R6 but im reading a little different evaluations from others. I am getting the R6. I see things I absolutly like. How are you getting around black EVF when coming on startled wildlife, wake up times and things of this nature that wont affect the 1Dx3 ?

I plan to have the R6 mounted on the 500F4 a lot and for hand hold needs, I think its going to be the 1Dx2

I've got an R5, not 6. (This is the R5 thread after all)

The advantage the R5 has over the 1DXIII:
- EVF.
We can use the viewfinder for the tasty delicious eye tracking autofocus. 1DXIII has amazing tracking capabilities, but the best AF system in the 1DXIII (it has two ) is DPAF which is only available via live view. On a multi-pound 1D body using live view to track a fast moving subject is about the most awkward thing imaginable. The only way to actually use it in daylight is with a hoodman or other loop, a ridiculous additional cost and makes the camera even more cumbersome.

- True animal eye detect.
This is a feature that the R5 and R6 have, the 1DXIII does not. In use the 1DXIII is more than capable of tracking the bird in flight as show above, but, it would be just as likely to have focused on the wingtip for the 2nd shot.

R6 and R5 have the "live view" 1DXIII AF system, but not only is it improved for wildlife shooters, most importantly you can use the EVF, so shooting with it is as natural (almost) as pointing your SLR has been for decades, put it to your eye and follow the subject.

I am finding that the R5 is just as fast and capable as the 1DXIII, but much easier to use the better AF functions due to the EVF.

The downside to R5 vs. 1DXIII? Battery of course, but it also just takes a LOT of tweaking, fiddling and configuring, and well, getting used to. I've been trying to accustom myself to mirror-less for years now, starting with my Fuji kit back in 2015 or so,. and by adding the EOS R this time last year. Still, compared to my comfort level with ANY Canon DSLR, I'm a novice. That said, with the R5 (and yes the R to a lesser extent) every amount of time I sped with it is proving rewarding.

Of course the R5 also has the significant sensor advantage, but that's another discussion.
IMHO the days of the 1D secret sauce are officially over. Pick up an R6 for 1/3rd the price and get everything but battery life. Assuming the R6 AF is exactly the same as the R5, (which it is, I just haven't used it first hand) I am sure given time and patience you will be blown away by the AF tracking. 20FPS,. etc.

Take a look at RobAmy's profile here at POTN, and look at his recent posts. None of them have been in 1DXIII image thread, they are all with R5 in the R5 thread, for months now, essentially since he got the R5.

umphotography wrote in post #19164156
So I am having experienced wildlife people tell me its not that fast and its not as good. Here is one here at POTN


..

Interesting. Some of it I agree with, but some of it I have not run into at all. The buffering issue perplexes me. I had electronic shutter on when I was shooting gulls the other day, close to 20FPS, but perhaps not the full 20, I can;t recall the specs pn what slows it down, but suffice it to say it was rolling off shots faster than any camera I've ever used before other than the 1DXIII @ 20fps, and never did I run into buffer. And this sensor has more than double the data that the 1DXIII is pushing.

I don't like EVF. Period. But for action oriented photography, like BIF, I far prefer EVF to live view! Like 10X! So yeah, 1DXIII still has optical viewfinder, but then I have to give up the same AF advantages we are discussing in this thread to use it and hamper myself to live view.

I've not shot the R5 is a lot of differing circumstances yet, but my trials have been in the same location on the same beach with the same birds and lighting, and the same lenses as I was testing the 1DXIII. In those conditions and subject matter, the R5 was at least as good as the 1DXIII overall and better at keeping the birds eye in focus.

Moderator hat On:

Just fyi, I hate having to walk two paths here, I enjoy participating as an R5 owner, not moderator. I did just delete some posts that were bringing up the same argument that I asked for an end to yesterday. I think both parties handled my request quite well and I thank them for it. Please don't drag them back into it.

As a member and enthusiast, (argh! which hat am I wearing now?) I see both sides of the 20mp debate having equal validity. I also have some opinions of my own, but the R5 thread is not the place to discuss the R6/1DXIII sensor. It's that simple. Post it elsewhere, and heck I'll join in!

What's funny is that most of the debate was about agreeing with each other. Even if you think it was an argument, all side are in agreement with the fact that the R6 with it's 20MP sensor (and likewise the 1DXIII) are not for everyone. Let's focus on that, and the argument ends.

I like it when we can all agree