Canon EOS R5 Unite and Discuss!

chuckmiller wrote in post #19100244
I didn't know until I began paying attention to this that Canon has a design patent for a tiny viewfinder fan for the 1Dx series.

I can see a fan system that moves air through the body being a dust problem.

Pulling air away from the sensor won't cause any issues. We only get dust on the sensor due to a) people leaving the camera open and at an angle that can attract dust when exposed and 2) the lenses, as they compress for telephoto use or focusing, push air from outside the lens into the sensor box. Then we get oil from the mechanics, an entirely different issue.

Pulling air out of the shutter/sensor area won't cause undue dust issues. Again it is hard to tell from the patent drawing. It appears it pulls air from the bottom of the adapter and moves it up to the top to exhaust. That would have no bearing (or real impact) to the heat between the sensor and the processor boards, unless there was a low pressure created to pull temps out of the camera through the front.

In the end, it won't make people happy. Many will likely want to use their RF lenses for video, and this adapter leaves them in the cold, so to speak.

https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=19100280

digital paradise wrote in post #19100209
R5 manual

https://gdlp01.c-wss.com …nced_User_Guide​_v1_EN.pdf

Neat! Thanks. Downoaded all 919 pages of it.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19100266
Pulling air away from the sensor won't cause any issues. We only get dust on the sensor due to a) people leaving the camera open and at an angle that can attract dust when exposed and 2) the lenses, as they compress for telephoto use or focusing, push air from outside the lens into the sensor box. Then we get oil from the mechanics, an entirely different issue.

Pulling air out of the shutter/sensor area won't cause undue dust issues. Again it is hard to tell from the patent drawing. It appears it pulls air from the bottom of the adapter and moves it up to the top to exhaust. That would have no bearing (or real impact) to the heat between the sensor and the processor boards, unless there was a low pressure created to pull temps out of the camera through the front.

In the end, it won't make people happy. Many will likely want to use their RF lenses for video, and this adapter leaves them in the cold, so to speak.

There is no way this camera made it to production status without an engineer popping it into video mode, pressing Record, and letting it run, and run, and run. I have to wonder why Canon is okay with the design and the issue. I'm very surprised the case doesn't have air vent openings behind the rear LCD (when the screen is in the closed position, that area).

WarriorPoet wrote in post #19100206
https://www.davidnoton​.com …L1nxr-B4eJHSJP2M4ufRnjrys

If anyone still uses cameras to take pictures, this was very favorable from that review -

But one thing is clear to me, the tonal range this sensor can record while still producing a punchy image with pleasing contrast is impressive. You’re going to want a figure I can’t give, but I have heard it postulated that this sensor has one extra stop of DR over the EOS R/5D Mark IV. I have no way of verifying that apart from squinting at the shadows in my RAWs, so all I’ll say is the R5 has plenty of DR, more than I need, to the point where I’d have to screw up royally to under or over-expose a RAW beyond retrieval. Quite frankly if you find yourself needing more DR then the R5 has I really do think you should take a look at your technique.

Mine should be here Thursday

chuckmiller wrote in post #19100311
There is no way this camera made it to production status without an engineer popping it into video mode, pressing Record, and letting it run, and run, and run. I have to wonder why Canon is okay with the design and the issue. I'm very surprised the case doesn't have air vent openings behind the read LCD (when the screen is in the closed position, that area).

By that time, quite a bit of the R&D and engineering has already been done. You cannot just go scrap the entire platform at that time. So what they did was advertise the overheating, added software to detect it maybe, and then had the software shut down portions of video. Software can be changed much more quickly than a redesign of electronics.

Canon stated they thought about a fan/cooling system, but didn't want to compromise sealing and size. IE. once they found out about the overheating, it was too late, and they tried to fix it with software. They then designed an EF adapter with cooling capability and filed a patent for it shortly after hoping that will lead to a fix people can live with.

At this point it is very safe to assume that if your livelihood depends on video, you will either be shooting at 1080 or standard 4k on these cameras, or you are going to buy something else. The R6 and R5 are not the cameras you want if you do video of any amount, despite the advertising Canon did about 8K. This means as an event shooter, you may want to consider a number of other cameras, even the R with cropped 4K. Just get a speedbooster and then your FOV will be wider for that 4k, or use one of the many very good aps-c UWA lenses.

Rule of thumb:
If you are a stills shooter, just depend which price point and resolution gets the job done, and get that camera.
If you are a video shooter, look elsewhere.
If you are a mix, with just a little bit of video from time to time, just be aware you may have to shoot at low quality video from time to time. So if the decision is to get the R5/R6, go to point #1.
If you are a mix, with quite a bit of video during events, consider using a different camera for video, and then if the decision is to get the R5/R6 too for everything else, go to point #1.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19100344
By that time, quite a bit of the R&D and engineering has already been done. You cannot just go scrap the entire platform at that time. So what they did was advertise the overheating, added software to detect it maybe, and then had the software shut down portions of video. Software can be changed much more quickly than a redesign of electronics.

Canon stated they thought about a fan/cooling system, but didn't want to compromise sealing and size. IE. once they found out about the overheating, it was too late, and they tried to fix it with software. They then designed an EF adapter with cooling capability and filed a patent for it shortly after hoping that will lead to a fix people can live with.

Thus the R5 mk2 will be the better camera, and the Mk 1 the beta tester

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19100344
By that time, quite a bit of the R&D and engineering has already been done. You cannot just go scrap the entire platform at that time. So what they did was advertise the overheating, added software to detect it maybe, and then had the software shut down portions of video. Software can be changed much more quickly than a redesign of electronics.

Canon stated they thought about a fan/cooling system, but didn't want to compromise sealing and size. IE. once they found out about the overheating, it was too late, and they tried to fix it with software. They then designed an EF adapter with cooling capability and filed a patent for it shortly after hoping that will lead to a fix people can live with.

At this point it is very safe to assume that if your livelihood depends on video, you will either be shooting at 1080 or standard 4k on these cameras, or you are going to buy something else. The R6 and R5 are not the cameras you want if you do video of any amount, despite the advertising Canon did about 8K. This means as an event shooter, you may want to consider a number of other cameras, even the R with cropped 4K. Just get a speedbooster and then your FOV will be wider for that 4k, or use one of the many very good aps-c UWA lenses.

Rule of thumb:
If you are a stills shooter, just depend which price point and resolution gets the job done, and get that camera.
If you are a video shooter, look elsewhere.
If you are a mix, with just a little bit of video from time to time, just be aware you may have to shoot at low quality video from time to time. So if the decision is to get the R5/R6, go to point #1.
If you are a mix, with quite a bit of video during events, consider using a different camera for video, and then if the decision is to get the R5/R6 too for everything else, go to point #1.

Very well said, TeamSpeed. I was also thinking the other thing Canon could have done, and everyone would have ripped them, was to remove the 8K and 4K120. I'm guessing we will not see much talk of this overheating in practice. Time will tell.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19100344
IE. once they found out about the overheating...

I'm pretty sure heat generation for different configurations is standard knowledge in the industry.

Archibald wrote in post #19100386
I'm pretty sure heat generation for different configurations is standard knowledge in the industry.

How would Canon know what the heating and cooling rates would be with all the boards sandwiched together into a sealed body? Maybe you're correct, they knew from the beginning that once the processor and sensor heated up, it would take a 2 hour cool down and went ahead with all of this. That would worry me even more if so.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19100392
How would Canon know what the heating and cooling rates would be with all the boards sandwiched together into a sealed body? Maybe you're correct, they knew from the beginning that once the processor and sensor heated up, it would take a 2 hour cool down and went ahead with all of this. That would worry me even more if so.

I don't know the details for sure, but I think heat generation by semiconductors is well understood as a function of processor speed and voltage (with conductor thickness also being important). Heat transfer inside the body has plenty of precedents as well, yet is less important. It just affects heat distribution internally. Heat flow is old tech. The rest is heat loss by the body, also well understood (mostly by convection but a bit by radiation). I have no doubt they knew long ago exactly how many watts would be produced under different loads.

goalerjones wrote in post #19100348
Thus the R5 mk2 will be the better camera, and the Mk 1 the beta tester

Pity, I considered the R the beta tester.

I don't shoot vids so I want the R5 to be a stellar 5D4 still photo camera replacement for me, in 2-3 years when MSRP pricing has really dropped.

Archibald wrote in post #19100401
I don't know the details for sure, but I think heat generation by semiconductors is well understood as a function of processor speed and voltage (with conductor thickness also being important). Heat transfer inside the body has plenty of precedents as well, yet is less important. It just affects heat distribution internally. Heat flow is old tech. The rest is heat loss by the body, also well understood (mostly by convection but a bit by radiation). I have no doubt they knew long ago exactly how many watts would be produced under different loads.

That knowledge plus extrapolation of what they know about the EOS R and their cine cameras. They certainly should not have had to make any wild-azzed guesses (known in the military as WAGs).

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19100266
Pulling air away from the sensor won't cause any issues. We only get dust on the sensor due to a) people leaving the camera open and at an angle that can attract dust when exposed and 2) the lenses, as they compress for telephoto use or focusing, push air from outside the lens into the sensor box. Then we get oil from the mechanics, an entirely different issue.

Pulling air out of the shutter/sensor area won't cause undue dust issues. Again it is hard to tell from the patent drawing. It appears it pulls air from the bottom of the adapter and moves it up to the top to exhaust. That would have no bearing (or real impact) to the heat between the sensor and the processor boards, unless there was a low pressure created to pull temps out of the camera through the front.

In the end, it won't make people happy. Many will likely want to use their RF lenses for video, and this adapter leaves them in the cold, so to speak.

You can't pull air out of the camera without replacing with something. Keeping that replacement air free of dust is going to be the issue.