Canon EOS R5 Unite and Discuss!

i-G12 wrote in post #19405966
OK. I have no idea what this means.

People complain that the One Point AF Isn’t a good mode for tracking fast moving objects but then these tiny squares associated with face tracking/eye detection are OK?

It makes a whole lot of difference whether you yourself have to point a tiny square onto a bird's eye (with Spot-AF), or if the camera does it all automatic like for you (with Face/Eye tracking AF).

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19405974
It makes a whole lot of difference whether you yourself have to point a tiny square onto a bird's eye (with Spot-AF), or if the camera does it all automatic like for you (with Face/Eye tracking AF).

... and each can be considered far superior to the other, depending on the scene. Sometimes you want the camera to just grab anything that looks like a target quickly, and sometimes you want it to ignore most of the frame and only look at what you are pointing at. Until cameras become very good at determining what you think is the subject in the frame just by your eye, these separate tools are going to remain necessary, IMO, and switching with a back button is a very efficient use of such a button.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19405974
It makes a whole lot of difference whether you yourself have to point a tiny square onto a bird's eye (with Spot-AF), or if the camera does it all automatic like for you (with Face/Eye tracking AF).

Yes but if you have a button set to AF/Eye Detection it’s the same thing as face tracking, right?

Edit: I don’t think anybody is trying to track an eye with Spot AF.

i-G12 wrote in post #19405978
Yes but if you have a button set to AF/Eye Detection it’s the same thing as face tracking, right?

Not precisely. If you are using face tracking, there's a series of "fallback" steps the system uses to help keep focus when/if the eyes cannot be detected...if no eye, find nearest head, if no head - find nearest body. If you have the button set for just Eye Detection AF it defaults to just looking for the closest thing that resembles an eyeball. I finally went back to using Face tracking + Eye Detect since it "sticks" better and I've been able to get more reliable AF out of it.

Snydremark wrote in post #19405982
Not precisely. If you are using face tracking, there's a series of "fallback" steps the system uses to help keep focus when/if the eyes cannot be detected...if no eye, find nearest head, if no head - find nearest body. If you have the button set for just Eye Detection AF it defaults to just looking for the closest thing that resembles an eyeball. I finally went back to using Face tracking + Eye Detect since it "sticks" better and I've been able to get more reliable AF out of it.

Hey, that’s the best explanation I’ve seen to date. Thanks for that.

John Sheehy wrote in post #19405977
... and each can be considered far superior to the other, depending on the scene. Sometimes you want the camera to just grab anything that looks like a target quickly, and sometimes you want it to ignore most of the frame and only look at what you are pointing at. Until cameras become very good at determining what you think is the subject in the frame just by your eye, these separate tools are going to remain necessary, IMO, and switching with a back button is a very efficient use of such a button.

Well yes. That's where back-up AF modes come in.

i-G12 wrote in post #19405978
Yes but if you have a button set to AF/Eye Detection it’s the same thing as face tracking, right?

Edit: I don’t think anybody is trying to track an eye with Spot AF.

Well, if it's an animal, ANY animal, where else would you want focus to be than on the eye?

i-G12 wrote in post #19405966
OK. I have no idea what this means.

People complain that the One Point AF Isn’t a good mode for tracking fast moving objects but then these tiny squares associated with face tracking/eye detection are OK?

In this mode, the single af point is simply where focus ends up. But the entire af area was used to track and find what to focus on. The argument against single af point for tracking is when one is using an af method that restricts all af to the single point, ignoring the rest.

i-G12 wrote in post #19405978
Yes but if you have a button set to AF/Eye Detection it’s the same thing as face tracking, right?

Edit: I don’t think anybody is trying to track an eye with Spot AF.

Some people are trying to track with spot at single point, and have been known to advocate that since before mirrorless and eye af. I've personally been pretty vocal about discouraging this recommendation for several years ߙ

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #19406010
Some people are trying to track with spot at single point, and have been known to advocate that since before mirrorless and eye af. I've personally been pretty vocal about discouraging this recommendation for several years ߙ

After using single point aimed at birds 'in' trees and getting the majority of my shots focussing on the background, I switched to spot on my 7D2 and no issues of it grabbing the bg since. These are from with the cheap lightweight but sharp 55-250 stm.

Immaculens wrote in post #19406022
After using single point aimed at birds 'in' trees and getting the majority of my shots focussing on the background, I switched to spot on my 7D2 and no issues of it grabbing the bg since. These are from with the cheap lightweight but sharp 55-250 stm.

[HOSTED PHOTO: link failed]

[HOSTED PHOTO: link failed]

Those are great examples of where Spot AF worked great and was a bit of a lifesaver on the dSLRs. AF, in general but specifically Spot vs Single, behaves a lot differently in the mirrorless bodies, which is leading us to have to adapt our shooting a bit more; I think it was Levina that said earlier that we can't shoot these new bodies the same way as the old ones if we want the best results. That isn't just reference to the new modes/methods...the basics have changed out from under us to a notable degree. For example, in the R5/6, I would expect Spot to have trouble grabbing those Waxwings while targeting the eye since there's very little contrast in that small area; where Single would have a much easier time at least locking on to the head.

Immaculens wrote in post #19406022
After using single point aimed at birds 'in' trees and getting the majority of my shots focussing on the background, I switched to spot on my 7D2 and no issues of it grabbing the bg since. These are from with the cheap lightweight but sharp 55-250 stm.

Hosted photo: posted by Immaculens in
./showthread.php?p=194​06022&i=i73603449
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Hosted photo: posted by Immaculens in
./showthread.php?p=194​06022&i=i250292266
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Lovely shots of such a lovely bird. No question it has it's place, but spot af on a DSLR was never a good option for birds in flight.

i-G12 wrote in post #19405966
OK. I have no idea what this means.

People complain that the One Point AF Isn’t a good mode for tracking fast moving objects but then these tiny squares associated with face tracking/eye detection are OK?

There are two types of "tracking" with the R5.

(1) "Manual" tracking where the photographer must aim, and 'hold" the selected AF Methods point/s on the subject, and if failing to do so, the camera will lose focus.

(2) Auto tracking, whereby through AI, the camera can seek out the subject, and follow it (track it) without the need for the photographer to maintain the AF point precisely on it.

"Auto tracking" is only available in Face+Tracking, and in the Zone Methods. It is not functional in Spot, One Point, or either Expansion Method's.

Eye Detection only functions within the Face+tracking Method, however Face+tracking can be used without Eye Detection.

If Face+tracking is used without Eye Detection, it will typically utilize one, or fewer AF squares, as a face is generally larger, and "easier" to detect than an eye.

With Eye Detection enabled, eyes being significantly smaller, and more challenging for the system to detect, typically results in multiple AF points "dancing" about in search of an eye and is more pronounced the further the distance to the subject.

Spot AF is the least practical AF method for tracking moving subjects; it is primarily for isolating small still subjects, especially when in "busy" surroundings! ; and One Point doesn't make much sense to use for tracking either, since the camera has far better Methods dedicated to that purpose! -----

However: Canon did include AF Modes/Methods to avoid losing focus while Manual tracking, via the Extension Modes, which essentially do use One Point, but adds extended "guard rail" AF Points that allows the One Point "box" to go some degree off the target without completely losing AF on the subject.

Two shots. The crab was shot at iSO 12800 and was pretty noisy but cleaned up pretty well with Topaz. The green heron was ISO 1600 and was not noisy at all, just some LR adjustments did it for that one.

Photo from edmidlifecrisis's gallery.
Image hosted by forum (1169597)

Photo from edmidlifecrisis's gallery.
Image hosted by forum (1169598)

R5 firmware 1.6.0 is posted on Canon Australia.

Firmware 1.6.0 seems to be posted everywhere now. I downloaded from Canon US and installed it. I'm shooting an airshow tomorrow. I don't expect any issues, but I'll report them if there are. My R6 will be the backup body just in case...