Canon EOS R5 Unite and Discuss!

Maybe I'm just simple minded, but the Manual tells me all I need to know about using STS:

If you want to prevent the tracking from "easily" switching to another subject, select 0, or 1.

If you want the tracking to switch "easily" to another subject/s, select 2.

It informs as to Caution /Precaution in use.

What else is there to know?

Leigh wrote in post #19433344
Maybe I'm just simple minded, but the Manual tells me all I need to know about using STS:

If you want to prevent the tracking from "easily" switching to another subject, select 0, or 1.

If you want the tracking to switch "easily" to another subject/s, select 2.

It informs as to Caution /Precaution in use.

What else is there to know?

Hosted photo: posted by Leigh in
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That is how I see it a well. It does not work like a DSLR's AF Auto point switching. There is no face or eye tracking option. With a DSLR in Zone AF when something gets into focus it is the "closest" object, which is what it is programmed to do. It could be anything but for this example let's say it's a person. When I moved the camera left and right I could see the difference of how quickly the AF points would let go and pick up between settings 0 and 2, to keep tracking that person (or object).

DSLRs control how quickly the AF point/s track, not how sensitive they are. If there is a second person further back in the frame and the primary person turns away so no eye is present, the system will not switch to the other person. It will continue to track the original person because that is still the closest object. R bodies Face/Eye detect will switch to the other persons eye. 0-2 dictates of how sensitive you what that to be. Do you want it to wait a bit to see if the primary eye re-appears or immediately pick another eye.

Leigh wrote in post #19433344
Maybe I'm just simple minded, but the Manual tells me all I need to know about using STS:

If you want to prevent the tracking from "easily" switching to another subject, select 0, or 1.

If you want the tracking to switch "easily" to another subject/s, select 2.

It informs as to Caution /Precaution in use.

What else is there to know?

Hosted photo: posted by Leigh in
./showthread.php?p=194​33344&i=i255298366
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

By the way Leigh my original question from day 1 was not so much about how STS worked. The question was does STS work with the Case numbers or was STS independent of the Case numbers. Did STS switch to another subject if it struggled with original subjects and deal with obstructions like Tracking Sensitivity does. With todays advanced algorithms it would even be plausible that Accel/Decel was automatically controlled when in the Face/AF so the user didn't have to worry about it. I always believed they worked together but I just wanted to hear it from Canon.

digital paradise wrote in post #19433475
By the way Leigh my original question from day 1 was not so much about how STS worked. The question was does STS work with the Case numbers or was STS independent of the Case numbers. Did STS switch to another subject if it struggled with original subjects and deal with obstructions like Tracking Sensitivity does. With todays advanced algorithms it would even be plausible that Accel/Decel was automatically controlled when in the Face/AF so the user didn't have to worry about it. I always believed they worked together but I just wanted to hear it from Canon.

I consider the Acel./Decel. and STS as independent tools that can be used alone or in combination, like an Exposure slider can work in combination with a Saturation slider in Photoshop. Acel./decel. addresses "Subjects behind "Obstacles" whereas STS addresses Switching from one "Subject" to another "Subject" (Subjects are not Obstacles, and Obstacles are not Subjects as to Canon's nomenclature, and in order to comprehend that you have to accept that through IA the Camera is able to distinguish a "Subject" from an "Obstacle"!

Can they function in combination? I don't see why not? If I'm tracking a single bird within a flock of birds, I'm going to configure STS to avoid switching to another bird in the flock, but I would also like to keep tracking that particular bird if the flock flies behind an obstacle such as a tower or a tree, so I'm going to set Acel'/decel. to the "left". If the "Subject" was a single bird alone, not near any other "Subjects" then the STS would be irrelevant.

The difference, and perhaps confusion" with slider controls in a program like Photoshop, VS those in a Camera’s computer program, is that in the former you get immediate real-time visual feedback to determine the results, whereas in the camera you do not, so you have no choice other than to believe what the camera manual states the control will accomplish at various positions.

Canon could have simply provided the Parameter's with instructions / suggestions where or when and how to use them, alone or in combination; but they included their suggested settings as Case pre-sets for those not willing to struggle with the former; and for those struggling with the Case presets, there's now an AUTO option as well. As to Case #'s they are Canons suggested preset "holders" for a specific shooting situation. When a Canon Case preset is altered it becomes in effect, a "User" Case.

Leigh wrote in post #19433654
I consider the Acel./Decel. and STS as independent tools that can be used alone or in combination, like an Exposure slider can work in combination with a Saturation slider in Photoshop. Acel./decel. addresses "Subjects behind "Obstacles" whereas STS addresses Switching from one "Subject" to another "Subject" (Subjects are not Obstacles, and Obstacles are not Subjects as to Canon's nomenclature, and in order to comprehend that you have to accept that through IA the Camera is able to distinguish a "Subject" from an "Obstacle"!

Can they function in combination? I don't see why not? If I'm tracking a single bird within a flock of birds, I'm going to configure STS to avoid switching to another bird in the flock, but I would also like to keep tracking that particular bird if the flock flies behind an obstacle such as a tower or a tree, so I'm going to set Acel'/decel. to the "left". If the "Subject" was a single bird alone, not near any other "Subjects" then the STS would be irrelevant.

The difference, and perhaps confusion" with slider controls in a program like Photoshop, VS those in a Camera’s computer program, is that in the former you get immediate real-time visual feedback to determine the results, whereas in the camera you do not, so you have no choice other than to believe what the camera manual states the control will accomplish at various positions.

Canon could have simply provided the Parameter's with instructions / suggestions where or when and how to use them, alone or in combination; but they included their suggested settings as Case pre-sets for those not willing to struggle with the former; and for those struggling with the Case presets, there's now an AUTO option as well. As to Case #'s they are Canons suggested preset "holders" for a specific shooting situation. When a Canon Case preset is altered it becomes in effect, a "User" Case.

That’s how I always understood it from the manual where it says that Tracking Sensitivity in the Cases deals with obstacles whereas Switching Tracked Subjects deals with (other) subjects.
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Leigh wrote in post #19433654
I consider the Acel./Decel. and STS as independent tools that can be used alone or in combination, like an Exposure slider can work in combination with a Saturation slider in Photoshop. Acel./decel. addresses "Subjects behind "Obstacles" whereas STS addresses Switching from one "Subject" to another "Subject" (Subjects are not Obstacles, and Obstacles are not Subjects as to Canon's nomenclature, and in order to comprehend that you have to accept that through IA the Camera is able to distinguish a "Subject" from an "Obstacle"!

Can they function in combination? I don't see why not? If I'm tracking a single bird within a flock of birds, I'm going to configure STS to avoid switching to another bird in the flock, but I would also like to keep tracking that particular bird if the flock flies behind an obstacle such as a tower or a tree, so I'm going to set Acel'/decel. to the "left". If the "Subject" was a single bird alone, not near any other "Subjects" then the STS would be irrelevant.

The difference, and perhaps confusion" with slider controls in a program like Photoshop, VS those in a Camera’s computer program, is that in the former you get immediate real-time visual feedback to determine the results, whereas in the camera you do not, so you have no choice other than to believe what the camera manual states the control will accomplish at various positions.

Canon could have simply provided the Parameter's with instructions / suggestions where or when and how to use them, alone or in combination; but they included their suggested settings as Case pre-sets for those not willing to struggle with the former; and for those struggling with the Case presets, there's now an AUTO option as well. As to Case #'s they are Canons suggested preset "holders" for a specific shooting situation. When a Canon Case preset is altered it becomes in effect, a "User" Case.

So do I and I have said that from the very beginning. Since they separated STS from the Case it would not have been impossible for Canon to have automated Tracking Sensitivity and Accel/Decel into STS. That was my only question. Auto already automatically decides how those two parameters adjust depending on the shooting conditions.

I just wanted hear it from Canon cause you never know. There is nothing out there anywhere except for a 1 hr 45 minute video that I doubt most people watched. When they got to STS even the presenter had a revelation. "Oh I guess I can use the Case numbers with STS". Rudy nodded his head. How long had the presenter been shooting until that day when he put this together?

The other one is Nina Bailey and I doubt everyone has that manual. Nina does say in her manual that Auto is for users not comfortable with the Case numbers. Not a single connection between STS and Case numbers in any other videos, etc and I looked at a lot of them.

As for Tracking Sensitivity in 2009 I set my 7D to -2 to ignore obstructions and have shot like that until today. When case numbers came out with the 7D2 and using Zone AF I tweaked TS, Accel/Decel, and AF Auto point switching. I'm still not convinced with Canon Europe saying AF Auto point switching and STS function the same way.

Yes Canon could have and should have provided some instructions. Currently the manuals are poorly written. Also I can show examples of how much better the IDX II AF guide explains things than the 1DX and 7D2 AF guides do. Over time Canon does provide better details as new manuals and particularly AF guides are released.

Even Ron from Whispering Wings wasn't really sure.

Thinking about this if I designed these new systems I would have not set it up so the Case numbers work with STS. I'd incorporate them into STS. Accel/Decel algorithms would be easy. As the subject speeds up and gets more erratic it adjusts accordingly. It's already doing it in Auto.

In STS have a sub menu. A. Ignore Obstructions. B. Re-focus on objects entering AF points. I think most people would choose A which is why I believe Auto is weighted towards a negative Tracking Sensitivity value.

More food for thought as to Parameter's working in conjunction with one another:

The Parameters do not have ON/OFF switches, so they are always "at the ready" regardless of how they're configured, but that doesn't mean that they are always "In-play".

They function either separately or together according to, and dependent upon the setting's, shooting situation, and Canon's Deep Learning alogarithm input.

Two articles of possible interest as to Deep Learning IA for the 1DX3, & R5:

https://www.digitalcam​eraworld.com …ai-powered-autofocus-work

https://en.canon-me.com/cameras/eos-r5/autofocus/

As to the AUTO setting:

"The EOS R5 now includes Case A, which automatically selects one of the four subject-specific AF cases, according to what is being photographed."

Leigh wrote in post #19433720
More food for thought as to Parameter's working in conjunction with one another:

The Parameters do not have ON/OFF switches, so they are always "at the ready" regardless of how they're configured, but that doesn't mean that they are always "In-play".

They function either separately or together according to, and dependent upon the setting's, shooting situation, and pertaining IA logarithm input.

Yes that would be pretty good. Make it easier for people who don't care or are intimated by advanced settings. You could even drop the submenus. If tracking using Face?Eye and obstructed by a wall who would want to re-focus on the wall (or non subject)? If obstructed by another subject that as an eye then you set STS to 0, 1, or 2 based on your preferences.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19433673
That’s how I always understood it from the manual where it says that Tracking Sensitivity in the Cases deals with obstacles whereas Switching Tracked Subjects deals with (other) subjects.
See here:

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The interesting part is here. Case 3 still deals with "subjects" obstructing your primary subject. This fellow and others describe to STS to deal with that.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=5IKCU_q7vfE

digital paradise wrote in post #19433729
The interesting part is here. Case 3 still deals with "subjects" obstructing your primary subject. This fellow and others describe to STS to deal with that.

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=5IKCU_q7vfE

Hosted photo: posted by digital paradise in
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This just seems to deal with a very specific scenario where you have a group of birds, walking around, foraging, and you want to switch to the new nearest bird every time. So it’s not so much an obstacle getting in the way of a tracked bird (as you’re not tracking really), as to quickly switching to the new bird that’s taking centre stage.

Not sure what Youtubers know that you don’t?

CASE 3

"Setting to focus on a series of subjects at different distances in the AF points, one after another. Focus switches to any new subject that appears in front of the target subject. Also effective when you want to always focus on the closest subject."

That doesn't make sense to me.

How can a setting configured to focus on a series of subject's (that's plural), one after another, and switch to any new subject have a singular target subject?

"Lost in translation"

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19433739
This just seems to deal with a very specific scenario where you have a group of birds, walking around, foraging, and you want to switch to the new nearest bird every time. So it’s not so much an obstacle getting in the way of a tracked bird (as you’re not tracking really), as to quickly switching to the new bird that’s taking centre stage.

Not sure what Youtubers know that you don’t?

That seems more suited to a non face/eye AF. With my DSLR’s I used to quickly drop AF from the original subject and re-focus on another by moving the camera left or right. I never had much use for it refocusing on a new subject crossing in front. I always wanted to ignore the new subject and I figure most do which is why I think Auto is weighted to Case 2.

According to this site: https://en.canon-me.com/cameras/eos-r5/autofocus/

"The EOS R5 includes Case A, which automatically selects one of the four subject-specific AF cases, according to what is being photographed".

In other words, AUTO does not incorporate any Parameter settings itself; it "surveys" the scene and applies one of the four cases that it deems appropriate.

digital paradise wrote in post #19433779
That seems more suited to a non face/eye AF. With my DSLR’s I used to quickly drop AF from the original subject and re-focus on another by moving the camera left or right. I never had much use for it refocusing on a new subject crossing in front. I always wanted to ignore the new subject and I figure most do which is why I think Auto is weighted to Case 2.

The cases are just presets, as in settings already dialed in for our convenience, so we only have to switch cases instead of dialling in new settings ourselves for any given situation. I don’t know what AUTO does exactly. It works pretty well though.

Personally, when confronted with a group of birds where none stands out (for whatever reason), I do want the nearest bird(s) to be in focus.