Canon EOS R5 Unite and Discuss!

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19433739
This just seems to deal with a very specific scenario where you have a group of birds, walking around, foraging, and you want to switch to the new nearest bird every time. So it’s not so much an obstacle getting in the way of a tracked bird (as you’re not tracking really), as to quickly switching to the new bird that’s taking centre stage.

Not sure what Youtubers know that you don’t?

The primary factor in case 3, is the position of the Tracking Sensitivity Control.

The further it is to the left/- the more it will stay onto / "stick to" a specific target/subject.

The further it is to the right/+ the more it will attempt to focus/refocus on any perceived target/subject that enters the AF point/s area.

Leigh wrote in post #19433815
The primary factor in case 3, is the position of the Tracking Sensitivity Control.

The further it is to the left/- the more it will stay onto / "stick to" a specific target/subject.

The further it is to the right/+ the more it will attempt to focus/refocus on any perceived target/subject that enters the AF point/s area.

Yes, I know what TS is. Just not sure why its position in Case 3 is of special interest.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19433791
The cases are just presets, as in settings already dialed in for our convenience, so we only have to switch cases instead of dialling in new settings ourselves for any given situation. I don’t know what AUTO does exactly. It works pretty well though.

Personally, when confronted with a group of birds where none stands out (for whatever reason), I do want the nearest bird(s) to be in focus.

Yes they are presets and I’ve used them all and tweaked the parameters to my taste.

Leigh wrote in post #19433785
According to this site: https://en.canon-me.com/cameras/eos-r5/autofocus/

"The EOS R5 includes Case A, which automatically selects one of the four subject-specific AF cases, according to what is being photographed".

In other words, AUTO does not incorporate any Parameter settings itself; it "surveys" the scene and applies one of the four cases that it deems appropriate.

I would have expected it picks a case.

digital paradise wrote in post #19433826
Yes they are presets and I’ve used them all and tweaked the parameters to my taste.

Forgot to say you can see the notches on the slider bars so you can set the parameters to factory settings.

digital paradise wrote in post #19433827
I would have expected it picks a case.

Sorry we have company. Cases 2 and 3 do very different things. How would Auto know what my intent is. It is why I still prefer to select it myself.

digital paradise wrote in post #19433845
Sorry we have company. Cases 2 and 3 do very different things. How would Auto know what my intent is. It is why I still prefer to select it myself.

My guess is that the first consideration is the Subject Selection, People, Animal, or Vehicle, and from there it would analyze, by movement to determine by its deep Learning data, what the selected subject is involved in, if People, a basketball game, or other sport; if Animal is it a bird, birds in flight, a single bear, a herd of Bison, or a Butterfly, etc., etc.

Personally, like you, I prefer to tweak a preset to what I consider works best for me, in any particular shooting situation.

On the other hand, Ron of Whistling Wings states that it works quite well for him for BIF, and I have no reason to doubt him.

I'd likely give it a try if shooting something for the first time, that I was not familiar with.

It would be helpful if when using AUTO, the EXIF indicated which Case Pre-set it chose, but Canon is not typically, informatively forthcoming, so the EXIF will likely list it only as "AUTO".

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19433819
Yes, I know what TS is. Just not sure why its position in Case 3 is of special interest.

I don't either. Reading Canon's description as to the function of Case 3 strikes me as somewhat contradictory. Perhaps it's just a "Lost In Translation" anomaly?

Leigh wrote in post #19434026
My guess is that the first consideration is the Subject Selection, People, Animal, or Vehicle, and from there it would analyze, by movement to determine by its deep Learning data, what the selected subject is involved in, if People, a basketball game, or other sport; if Animal is it a bird, birds in flight, a single bear, a herd of Bison, or a Butterfly, etc., etc.

Personally, like you, I prefer to tweak a preset to what I consider works best for me, in any particular shooting situation.

On the other hand, Ron of Whistling Wings states that it works quite well for him for BIF, and I have no reason to doubt him.

I'd likely give it a try if shooting something for the first time, that I was not familiar with.

It would be helpful if when using AUTO, the EXIF indicated which Case Pre-set it chose, but Canon is not typically, informatively forthcoming, so the EXIF will likely list it only as "AUTO".

Yes last I read Ron does likes Auto and I also have no reason to doubt him either. Since I believe most people would prefer to hang on to the original subject I think it is weighted to Case 2. Then again who knows how these auto algorithms really work now that face/eye AF was thrown into the mix. I tried Auto and never had any adverse effects but since I'm comfortable with the Cases and parameters I'll just set them myself for now.

Yes that would be very helpful. Canon won't even provide EXIF to tell me which IS mode I used so I won't hold my breath.

Leigh wrote in post #19434033
I don't either. Reading Canon's description as to the function of Case 3 strikes me as somewhat contradictory. Perhaps it's just a "Lost In Translation" anomaly?

Leigh wrote in post #19433755
CASE 3

"Setting to focus on a series of subjects at different distances in the AF points, one after another. Focus switches to any new subject that appears in front of the target subject. Also effective when you want to always focus on the closest subject."

I interpret this in the way I explained in an earlier post: you have a group of birds on the ground, foraging, moving about within the focal area but obviously at different distances. You focus on a bird and another walks in front. If you choose Case 3 the AF switches to the new bird. If you set TS to -2, AF ignores the new bird.

Whatever the Case numbers and whatever Canon’s description of them, the basic rule is -2 will stick to the subject, +2 will not but instead switch more quickly to something else.

Makes sense to me.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19434047
I interpret this in the way I explained in an earlier post: you have a group of birds on the ground, foraging, moving about within the focal area but obviously at different distances. You focus on a bird and another walks in front. If you choose Case 3 the AF switches to the new bird. If you set TS to -2, AF ignores the new bird.

Whatever the Case numbers and whatever Canon’s description of them, the basic rule is -2 will stick to the subject, +2 will not but instead switch more quickly to something else.

Makes sense to me.

For my DSLR's that was exactly how I understood it as well and used both for that purpose. IMO it is very strait forward when in a non face/eye AF mode. As I stated earlier even if the manual calls it a subject it is really an object to the camera. I can place the single AF point on a tree or a bird and the camera won't know the difference between either one. Whatever you have your AF on is your subject.

If a bird walks behind a short brick wall or another bird the camera won't know the difference. Both are an obstruction to it. Now go to face/eye AF. The bird walks behind the wall it is an obstruction. The bird walks behind another bird now it is an obstruction - but with an eye. The algorithms are trained to look for an eye so the system will react differently.

Long ago I said it's probably important to match Case numbers to STS settings. I would avoid setting TS to -2 and STS to 2. Something to keep in mind

digital paradise wrote in post #19434049
For my DSLR's that was exactly how I understood it as well and used both for that purpose. IMO it is very strait forward when in a non face/eye AF mode. As I stated earlier even if the manual calls it a subject it is really an object to the camera. I can place the single AF point on a tree or a bird and the camera won't know the difference between either one. Whatever you have your AF on is your subject.

If a bird walks behind a short brick wall or another bird the camera won't know the difference. Both are an obstruction to it. Now go to face/eye AF. The bird walks behind the wall it is an obstruction. The bird walks behind another bird now it is an obstruction - but with an eye. The algorithms are trained to look for an eye so the system will react differently.

Long ago I said it's probably important to match Case numbers to STS settings. I would avoid setting TS to -2 and STS to 2. Something to keep in mind

I don’t think the system is different in Face/Eye-AF mode. Yes, the AF looks for an eye, but how long or short it stays there and how it responds when there’s an obstacle, i think is still determined by the same parameters that work in other modes.

I have no idea why you say to avoid TS to -2.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19434055
I don’t think the system is different in Face/Eye-AF mode. Yes, the AF looks for an eye, but how long or short it stays there and how it responds when there’s an obstacle, i think is still determined by the same parameters that work in other modes.

I have no idea why you say to avoid TS to -2.

Avoid TS -2 with STS set 2. TS is set to avoid obstacles and hang on for bit before it refocus on something else. STS at 2 is telling the camera to refocuses on the new subject. Seems to me like they are working against each other.

I wouldn’t set TS+2 with STS at 0 either.

digital paradise wrote in post #19434059
Avoid TS -2 with STS set 2. TS is set to avoid obstacles and hang on for bit before it refocus on something else. STS at 2 is telling the camera to refocuses on the new subject. Seems to me like they are working against each other.

I wouldn’t set TS+2 with STS at 0 either.

Ah, in combination! Right.

digital paradise wrote in post #19434059
Avoid TS -2 with STS set 2. TS is set to avoid obstacles and hang on for bit before it refocus on something else. STS at 2 is telling the camera to refocuses on the new subject. Seems to me like they are working against each other.

I wouldn’t set TS+2 with STS at 0 either.

At it's core, some of the confusion here may be caused by Canon choosing to use same/similar terminology when the autofocus system moved from DSLR to mirrorless. The hardware and therefore the computer algorithms are very different. Likely this was done to ease Canon loyals through the transition.

It would probably have been better to start with new parameter names and clearly define what they meant rather than creating the implied reference to older autofocus systems.

As several earlier posts bave stated it would definitely give clarity for Canon to explicitly tell us what it all means and give examples.