Canon EOS R5 Unite and Discuss!

[QUOTE=Levina de Ruijter;19434047]I interpret this in the way I explained in an earlier post: you have a group of birds on the ground, foraging, moving about within the focal area but obviously at different distances. You focus on a bird and another walks in front. If you choose Case 3 the AF switches to the new bird. If you set TS to -2, AF ignores the new bird.

Whatever the Case numbers and whatever Canon’s description of them, the basic rule is -2 will stick to the subject, +2 will not but instead switch more quickly to something else.

Makes sense to me.[/QUOTE


CASE-3 (Per Canon Manual):

"Setting to focus on a series of subjects at different distances in the AF points, one after another. Focus switches to any new subject that appears in front of the target subject. Also effective when you want to always focus on the closest subject."

If, as they say, it "focuses on a series of Subjects",--- "one after the other",---"Switches to any new Subject"; what are they referring to as "the Target Subject"?

Not that it matters----Just "sounds" rather flakey to me! I would think of a "Target Subject" as one you'd like to stay focused on, rather than one that's continuously changing.

digital paradise wrote in post #19434059
Avoid TS -2 with STS set 2. TS is set to avoid obstacles and hang on for bit before it refocus on something else. STS at 2 is telling the camera to refocuses on the new subject. Seems to me like they are working against each other.

I wouldn’t set TS+2 with STS at 0 either.

I wouldn't either. I can't imagine any circumstance where I would want STS on "0".

If I want to stick with a subject regardless of either Obstacles, or other Subjects, I'd set TS to -2, & STS to "0".

If I wanted to focus on whatever came into the chosen AF Point area, I'd set TS to full +, & STS to 2.

Leigh wrote in post #19434126
I wouldn't either. I can't imagine any circumstance where I would want STS on "0".

If I want to stick with a subject regardless of either Obstacles, or other Subjects, I'd set TS to -2, & STS to "0".

If I wanted to focus on whatever came into the chosen AF Point area, I'd set TS to full +, & STS to 2.

Exactly the way I see it. One reason I have mentioned now and then is so someone does not do the opposite inadvertently and wonder why the camera is doing strange things.

downhillonwater wrote in post #19434090
At it's core, some of the confusion here may be caused by Canon choosing to use same/similar terminology when the autofocus system moved from DSLR to mirrorless. The hardware and therefore the computer algorithms are very different. Likely this was done to ease Canon loyals through the transition.

It would probably have been better to start with new parameter names and clearly define what they meant rather than creating the implied reference to older autofocus systems.

As several earlier posts bave stated it would definitely give clarity for Canon to explicitly tell us what it all means and give examples.

I couldn’t agree more. If you look back at my posts, a few weeks after the R5 was release I asked what is the relationship between the Case numbers and STS. Still waiting for Canon to expand on it.

Yeah! It would be helpful if Canon produced a Glossary of terms, and what each term applied to!

I suppose, with customers of so many different languages, that's no easy task. Some stuff likely to be lost in translation.

It seems every time Canon produces a new /upgraded product, users have to spend many frustrating hours on forums, and U-tube, attempting to sort out information from misinformation to learn how to use it to the best advantage, as opposed to Canon making it intuitively clear in the first place!

Leigh wrote in post #19434334
Yeah! It would be helpful if Canon produced a Glossary of terms, and what each term applied to!

I suppose, with customers of so many different languages, that's no easy task. Some stuff likely to be lost in translation.

Probably. I'm waiting for the R3 AF Guide that may hopefully provide more information.

digital paradise wrote in post #19434335
Probably. I'm waiting for the R3 AF Guide that may hopefully provide more information.

Me too!

downhillonwater wrote in post #19434090
At it's core, some of the confusion here may be caused by Canon choosing to use same/similar terminology when the autofocus system moved from DSLR to mirrorless. The hardware and therefore the computer algorithms are very different. Likely this was done to ease Canon loyals through the transition.

It would probably have been better to start with new parameter names and clearly define what they meant rather than creating the implied reference to older autofocus systems.

As several earlier posts bave stated it would definitely give clarity for Canon to explicitly tell us what it all means and give examples.

It's in a pretty confusing state right now all together. The biggest changes came with EOS DSLR to EOS-R, but then you learn the EOS R and R5 and R6 come along and are very different. More, the R7 and R3 come out and with some of the same features of the R5 and R6, but have different names under different menus for those same features. You KNOW you can make the same adjustment that you can on your R5 on your new R7, but doing so is differnt from camera to camera.

It will all work itself out eventually, but we are in the growing pains phase.

digital paradise wrote in post #19434059
Avoid TS -2 with STS set 2. TS is set to avoid obstacles and hang on for bit before it refocus on something else. STS at 2 is telling the camera to refocuses on the new subject. Seems to me like they are working against each other.

No, it's not the same thing. TS set to -2 tells the camera to avoid focusing at irrelevant things (i.e. things not being faces, if you are tracking faces) that may obscure the view. STS instead controls the camera's willingness to switch to another relevant thing (i.e. yet another face when already tracking one face).

So yes, it can make sense so combine -2 with 2. They don't concern the same issue.

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19434047
I interpret this in the way I explained in an earlier post: you have a group of birds on the ground, foraging, moving about within the focal area but obviously at different distances. You focus on a bird and another walks in front. If you choose Case 3 the AF switches to the new bird. If you set TS to -2, AF ignores the new bird.

Whatever the Case numbers and whatever Canon’s description of them, the basic rule is -2 will stick to the subject, +2 will not but instead switch more quickly to something else.

Makes sense to me.

Yes, if you add that the tracking sensitivity is really a time-out. In older 1D-series cameras Canon actually specified the time. From 1 second before switching to 0.125 seconds before switching across the scale.

Leigh wrote in post #19434116
CASE-3 (Per Canon Manual):

"Setting to focus on a series of subjects at different distances in the AF points, one after another. Focus switches to any new subject that appears in front of the target subject. Also effective when you want to always focus on the closest subject."

If, as they say, it "focuses on a series of Subjects",--- "one after the other",---"Switches to any new Subject"; what are they referring to as "the Target Subject"?

Not that it matters----Just "sounds" rather flakey to me! I would think of a "Target Subject" as one you'd like to stay focused on, rather than one that's continuously changing.

They don't try to say it's continuously changing for no good reason. It's a described above. It will go through the subjects, one at a time, if they happen to "walk into the action", i.e. hide the previously tracked subject.

Besides, it's not really that simple that DSLR models don't follow faces. Already the 1DX Mark II will do that, if you enable the iTR focusing method. It will use the 360 kilopixel light metering sensor to identify faces, and track them as long as they stay in front of any of the 61 AF points. Kind of a predecessor to what you can do with the mirrorless cameras, and also with the 1DX Mark III, if you uset it in "mirrorless mode", known as live view.

apersson850 wrote in post #19435040
No, it's not the same thing. TS set to -2 tells the camera to avoid focusing at irrelevant things (i.e. things not being faces, if you are tracking faces) that may obscure the view. STS instead controls the camera's willingness to switch to another relevant thing (i.e. yet another face when already tracking one face).

So yes, it can make sense so combine -2 with 2. They don't concern the same issue.

I have thought if that and yes it is sound. I wasn’t sure how much more to add in these conversations. It goes a little a little deeper into how the algorithms work. I have recommended to match because I suspect most users want to hang on to the original subject.

digital paradise wrote in post #19434059
Avoid TS -2 with STS set 2. TS is set to avoid obstacles and hang on for bit before it refocus on something else. STS at 2 is telling the camera to refocuses on the new subject. Seems to me like they are working against each other.

I wouldn’t set TS+2 with STS at 0 either.

The camera through Deep Learning tech. "knows" how to distinguish a subject from an obstacle.

If you're tracking a single Subject, TS at minus will prevent switching to an Obstacle, and if there are no other nearby Subjects, STS setting is irrelevant.

If you were tracking a single Subject among other nearby Subjects setting TS to minus will keep from switching to Obstacles, & STS to 1, or 0 would prevent switching to another Subject.

digital paradise wrote in post #19435054
I have thought if that and yes it is sound. I wasn’t sure how much more to add in these conversations. It goes a little a little deeper into how the algorithms work. I have recommended to match because I suspect most users want to hang on to the original subject.

I was running errands and had a moment. A few more thoughts. Then you get into scenarios. A bird walks into front of your primary bird so there is an eye for the system to locate. Or just before the bird steps in front of the primary it turns it's head so
so there is no eye for the system locate. Same goes for people ice skating, etc.

Like I said earlier separating the Case numbers from STS might be interesting. Keep Cases for non Face/Eye modes. Since Accel/Decel already self adjusts when in Auto apply that to STS. 0-2 controls how readily it selects another eye. Just a simple sub menu in STS. Do you want to hang on or drop the original subject when there is an obstruction.

But who knows. I'm not an engineer. Maybe they thought of that and it just created more problems.

apersson850 wrote in post #19435040
No, it's not the same thing. TS set to -2 tells the camera to avoid focusing at irrelevant things (i.e. things not being faces, if you are tracking faces) that may obscure the view. STS instead controls the camera's willingness to switch to another relevant thing (i.e. yet another face when already tracking one face).

So yes, it can make sense so combine -2 with 2. They don't concern the same issue.

This is what I do when shooting swallows and swifts and the likes, set TS to-2 and STS to 2 as I want the AF to ignore possible obstacles like Power cables, lanterns etc. whilst at the same time be able to switch to another bird nearby as quickly as possible. This works well for me.

My default setting for birds is to have both ST and SWS set all the way to the left, so ignore obstacles and stay with the subject as long as possible.

digital paradise wrote in post #19435054
I have thought if that and yes it is sound. I wasn’t sure how much more to add in these conversations. It goes a little a little deeper into how the algorithms work. I have recommended to match because I suspect most users want to hang on to the original subject.

No, don’t do that. Don’t think for other people!