R6 (and maybe R5) overheating issue

davesrose wrote in post #19120570
There's also the point that Arri was an established film brand, and what studios have had for their rigs and lenses could still be used with new Arri digital cameras. That market is also used to external focus pull (especially for smooth motion), complete with a separate operator.

A good portable setup that can have smooth AF with stabilization could be a good selling point for YouTubers and also production firms (both TV and movies) for shots that have needed large Steadicams. May also open up the capabilities of the shot, as the easy way to operate gimbal is shoot wide and not do any focusing.

In the same vein, I'm watching more TV productions that are filmed with the cinema process in 4K/HDR (and not what had been broadcast TV workflows). I've found it interesting that these new productions can go for the old soft look of anamorphic lenses (and the frame is soft both in the top and bottom areas).

Reference about a smaller IBIS camera (that could meet specs for film making) vs the traditional:

Hosted photo: posted by davesrose in
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forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Yeah, I don't have a steadicam but a cinema-camera-sized medium gimbal with one of those "exo suits" . I'm having difficulty landing shots with wide aperture lenses in autofocus and I think wireless focus is the only way to go at this point. A longer cable and a dedicated operator tapping the detachable autofocus screen works too, but it's just hella awkward when we try complex long takes.

I think the C70 or R5 with the upcoming Ronin S2 one handed gimbal might be more usable for vacationing (easy to tap the touch screen), but I tried the Ronin S and it's still heavy for one hand continuous use all day, and losing the 4th axis stabilization is kind of awkward too. I must not be holding it right though (poor taste reference to Steve Jobs and Apple chamfered edge iPhones and antenna-gate) or something.

The fact that Canon's cinema line is not the market dominant brand...

• Does not prevent Canon corporate executives from not wanting to take away business from their own cinema-only business by the primarily-still camera business
  
• does not prevent Canon cinema-only product executives from not wanting to lose any business by the primarily-still camera business
  
• Canon's still camera business has, for decades, practiced the 'crippling' of their own 'lower lines' from the premium line still camera
  ...the 1Dn gets features not found any ANY product line which is less expensive -- 'market positioning' is practiced almost universally by multi-product companies. The business schools (MBA 'mills') teach why this is necessary.
  
• The fact that Canon's still camera businss has been the 'dominant' brand gives some credence that the stills camera business can afford to give up some business to help the 'we try barder' cinema-only business to advance in its marketplace
  

Your list has nothing to do why the R5 is different from a cinema camera, and how even if it could record 8K for 30 minutes, would still not compete with a cinema camera. Those that think otherwise (from what I have seen) are stills shooters and don't know that established cinema brands have their bodies accept cinema lenses, have mechanical rotary shutters, record in lossless video formats on larger media, have sensor sizes optimized for cinema aspects....and I can go on.

That's a clear delineation of what makes a stills camera that shoots video different than a cinema camera. Your use of "crippling" of a cheaper stills model vs professional model is not the same as those accusing one camera being "crippled" in its features. Canon is a business intent on survival: your cheaper Rebel series cameras are produced at a cheaper price than the 1D, and it has more unit sales. A typical Rebel user is also looking for preprogramed modes, while a 1D user is wanting a durable camera with different features.

Yes, my list has nothing to do why the R5 is different from a cinema camera! I gave purely 'corporate politicis' reasons behind decisions, and absolutely nothing to do with product differentiation of Still vs. Cinema.

The reality is that high level decisions are made for reasons OTHER THAN what makes Product 1 (in market 1) different from Product A (in Market B). Because sometimes they are BUSINESS LEVEL decisions. I spent 40 years in the bottom/middle/top of those kinds of decisions, to realize they happen. At my last job, my entire business unit was EXCISED from the company simply because of a marketing clause in a contract signed years earlier, that the top dogs forgot about...a lot of layoffs resulted. There was ZERO decision based upon Product Z being better than Product X, in that decision.

Then I’m not sure your logic that a model priced in a different price range is “crippled”. Most people understand why a Rebel is cheaper than a 1D

The following is totally OUT of the context of the R5/R6 specifically:

Simply put, most people on POTN recognize the continued pattern of 'de-featured' lower priced models. In the vernacular, some call them 'crippled' .
And regardless of the term, most on POTN understand the protectionism of the high end product. To many, 'de-featured' = 'crippled', and the 'crippled' is simply a more derogatory name for the practice which is not always condoned. Just sayin'. I may be guilty of using the 'crippled' term at times, but just as often if not more often I have referred to 'de-featured'. Rebels are defeatured in lacking a joystick. 5Ds are 'crippled' in lacking ability to move spotmetering point.
It may stem from the fact that in many cases it is NOT 'missing hardware', but the lack of software support for something ...spotmetering on any AF point chosen vs. only in the exact center of frame is one example. But then again, sometimes it is indeed omission of hardware, like a PC connector for a flash on-camera (not built in flash)

Back within the context of the R5/R6, why does ANY timer need to exist when a camera is not put into Video mode?!
Preliminarily one owner has posted shots in 'cold' status vs. 'overheated' status, and there is very little visible difference, yet Canon tells us there will be IQ degradation with even the white icon warning. Puzzling that the warning is needed, when one test showed it is not.

Wilt wrote in post #19120625
The following is totally OUT of the context of the R5/R6 specifically:

Simply put, most people on POTN recognize the continued pattern of 'de-featured' lower priced models. In the vernacular, some call them 'crippled' .
And regardless of the term, most on POTN understand the protectionism of the high end product. To many, 'de-featured' = 'crippled', and the 'crippled' is simply a more derogatory name for the practice which is not always condoned. Just sayin'. I may be guilty of using the 'crippled' term at times, but just as often if not more often I have referred to 'de-featured'. Rebels are defeatured in lacking a joystick. 5Ds are 'crippled' in lacking ability to move spotmetering point.
It may stem from the fact that in many cases it is NOT 'missing hardware', but the lack of software support for something ...spotmetering on any AF point chosen vs. only in the exact center of frame is one example. But then again, sometimes it is indeed omission of hardware, like a PC connector for a flash on-camera (not built in flash)

Back within the context of the R5/R6, why does ANY timer need to exist when a camera is not put into Video mode?!
Preliminarily one owner has posted shots in 'cold' status vs. 'overheated' status, and there is very little visible difference, yet Canon tells us there will be IQ degradation with even the white icon warning.

Cripple is honestly a word the have-nots use a lot (and an extremely rude word nowadays in 2020). I used to complain about Apple "crippling" their products back when I was young and in college. My roommate took issue with the word. Guess what now? He works at Apple, and I don't.

Keep using the word instead of living with realities of the market and industry. There are a lot of ways to get better at video and photography. Yelling cripple hammer ad nauseum is not one of them.

All cameras have had clocks for keeping time and timers for setting shutter speeds and self timers. Canon is covering their bases with the disclaimer of IQ degradation as overheating the sensor will do that. The issue that no one disagrees with is if Canon still has to improve their firmware so that situations with stills and 1080p recording does not reach that degredation.

How one perceives the meaning of a word, negative, neutral or positive, is a personal choice. However it doesn't belong in discussions like this, the technically correct term is "model differentiation", which every manufacturer does, and nobody should be surprised by it.

One may not like what Canon does to create price tiers and model lines, but it is what it is, no one is entitled to features at a price point other than what the manufacturer decides. If someone doesn't like it, they can vote with their money by not buying the product in question.

Guys, keep in mind that opinions on points can and do vary, and individual perspectives exist to color what may appear to be 'the same' objective circumstances. We need NOT have matching opinions, and we each have a right to have and express our opinions. Convincing someone who has a differing opinion to have your opinion is unnecessary and probably time wasting.

The 'debates' and 'religion conversions' are not necessary. Yes some folks might seem to be expressing opinions like broken records. Both sides should 'give it a rest' and move on, opinions expressed. They need not match.

Wilt wrote in post #19120639
Guys, keep in mind that opinions on points can and do vary, and individual perspectives exist to color what may appear to be 'the some' opinion. We need NOT have matching opinions, and we each have a right to have and express our opinions. Convincing someone who has a differing opinion is unnecessary and probably time wasting.

The 'debates' and 'religions conversions' are not necessary. Yes some folks might seem to be expressing opinions like broken records. Both sides should 'give it a rest' and move on, opinions expressed.

I mean, this is your MO, state something contrarian with CAPS LOCK and loaded language, then call the others "debating" and "bickering" for simply disagreeing. I acknowledge you have your opinion, and I can have mine.

Accusatory and personal afronts are against POTN rules. Debate technical issues and opinions, do not make personal the attacks

Wilt wrote in post #19120644
Accusatory and personal afronts are against POTN rules. Debate technical issues and opinions, do not make personal the attacks

How is this a personal attack? You yourself have labeled other users as "bickering" and "debating." What is so wrong about not agreeing (with you) on something?

Wilt wrote in post #19120625
Back within the context of the R5/R6, why does ANY timer need to exist when a camera is not put into Video mode?!
Preliminarily one owner has posted shots in 'cold' status vs. 'overheated' status, and there is very little visible difference, yet Canon tells us there will be IQ degradation with even the white icon warning. Puzzling that the warning is needed, when one test showed it is not.

This warning didn't come about with the R5/R6. It has always been there since Live view was introduced. In fact the same warnings about temperatures and degraded image quality was in the 40D manual.

A timer circuit is useful for many things other than video. There are many timing related functions in still mode.

idkdc wrote in post #19120646
How is this a personal attack? You yourself have labeled other users as "bickering" and "debating." What is so wrong about not agreeing on something?

The statement, "I mean, this is your MO, state something contrarian with CAPS LOCK and loaded language" has nothing to do with a product characteristic or its use. It is a criticism of ME.