R6 (and maybe R5) overheating issue

One would think the new AF technology needs some adaptions or improved set of features for cinema

• set AF1 point, set AF2 point, have a user-controlled rate of focus change between AF1 and AF2 on cue
  

That's an example why cinema lenses don't rely on AF (a quick shift, and with classical AF methods: hunt and peck). I was just thinking of some kind of workflow with cinema where you get the benefits of A.I. being able to pick a focus point very quickly (and accurately), and then a manual operator having a smooth looking focus pull.

davesrose wrote in post #19120765
That's an example why cinema lenses don't rely on AF. I was just thinking of some kind of workflow with cinema where you get the benefits of A.I. being able to pick a focus point very quickly (and accurately), and then a manual operator having a smooth looking focus pull.

Canon EF cinema glass works with the autofocus system already in manual focus. PL doesn’t and requires the expensive Arri cforce ultrasound thingy (well $6K ish) to autofocus using the cforce motors.

idkdc wrote in post #19120769
Canon EF cinema glass works with the autofocus system already in manual focus. PL doesn’t and requires the expensive Arri cforce ultrasound thingy (well $6K ish) to autofocus using the cforce motors.

Yeah, and Canon is marketing the PL mount as their 4K optimized cinema lenses. Edit: also see they now have premium cinema zoom lenses with EF mount and focus with Cine-Servo rig (that has independent AF or manual focus).

davesrose wrote in post #19120773
Yeah, and Canon is marketing the PL mount as their 4K optimized cinema lenses

I don’t think they are marketing them as 4K lenses so much as having “character.” They are actually softer wide open, but that’s supposed to be a good thing.

I’m curious to know if the Zeiss Otus focus confirm works with the cinema DPAF system. Been twirling my mustache at those.

idkdc wrote in post #19120774
I don’t think they are marketing them as 4K lenses so much as having “character.” They are actually softer wide open, but that’s supposed to be a good thing.

It seems it's the lens in question....for extreme, and expensive zooms, like 50mm-1000mm, Canon's marketing does say optics optimized with all those FLs for 4K (I had known it to be a PL mount, but apparently now there's EF mount as well). May be different matter now with new primes and more bodies coming out with 6K and 8K recording capabilities.

davesrose wrote in post #19120775
It seems it's the lens in question....for extreme, and expensive zooms, like 50mm-1000mm, Canon's marketing does say optics optimized with all those FLs for 4K (I had known it to be a PL mount, but apparently now there's EF mount as well). May be different matter now with new primes and more bodies coming out with 6K and 8K recording capabilities.

Oh yeah, I thought their zooms are available in both PL and EF (AF on cine servo models).

The sumire primes are the only new ones available only in PL to my knowledge and have the attributes I mentioned.

I’m really digging the new 25-250mm, probably will wait on something like that until after Corona Times are done.

idkdc wrote in post #19120780
Oh yeah, I thought their zooms are available in both PL and EF (AF on cine servo models).

The sumire primes are the only new ones available only in PL to my knowledge and have the attributes I mentioned.

I’m really digging the new 25-250mm, probably will wait on something like that until after Corona Times are done.

Yeah, the delineation with the cinema lens having Cine-Servo is that there's AF or manual focus done external from the lens. Guess we'll see if Canon starts marketing a R mount for better optics with 6K/8K recording.

I'll have to follow future posts from you about impressions of C-70 and usage of Canon gear for video work. My professional experience is the video editing side with emphasis on 3D VFX. Being into photography and a cinephile, I like learning about good cinematography (with movies throughout the ages). Just bought a whole collection of Hitchcock movies (including the recent ones reworked in 4K). Also always being into special effects and photography, I think it interesting to see differences in say the original Top Gun (where they tried to have smaller film gates for fitting Super-35 cameras on planes) vs the new Maverick movie coming out (where small cameras can record 4K digital). Also on the digital editing side, to see how ILM created a computer controlled system for filming passes on larger film stock like VistaVision (which would be degraded when having to do optical prints on film). But some of these passes are the exact same setups used with rendering 3D passes.

Also 50-1000, oof, that one was made for planet earth. One day XD

idkdc wrote in post #19120791
Also 50-1000, oof, that one was made for planet earth. One day XD

Yeah, as impressive as the lens is by itself, still could not fit everything in Eames's Powers of 10 :

davesrose wrote in post #19120794
Yeah, as impressive as the lens is by itself, still could not fit everything in Eames's Powers of 10 :

50-1000 is Canon cripple hammer. I was thinking of buying three, but now I won’t!!

idkdc wrote in post #19120805
50-1000 is Canon cripple hammer. I was thinking of buying three, but now I won’t!!

Oh, jeeze, it's saying something that you're now in the "cripple" camp

davesrose wrote in post #19120789
Yeah, the delineation with the cinema lens having Cine-Servo is that there's AF or manual focus done external from the lens. Guess we'll see if Canon starts marketing a R mount for better optics with 6K/8K recording.

I'll have to follow future posts from you about impressions of C-70 and usage of Canon gear for video work. My professional experience is the video editing side with emphasis on 3D VFX. Being into photography and a cinephile, I like learning about good cinematography (with movies throughout the ages). Just bought a whole collection of Hitchcock movies (including the recent ones reworked in 4K). Also always being into special effects and photography, I think it interesting to see differences in say the original Top Gun (where they tried to have smaller film gates for fitting Super-35 cameras on planes) vs the new Maverick movie coming out (where small cameras can record 4K digital). Also on the digital editing side, to see how ILM created a computer controlled system for filming passes on larger film stock like VistaVision (which would be degraded when having to do optical prints on film). But some of these passes are the exact same setups used with rendering 3D passes.

I don’t know the terminology of why they call it Cine-Servo other than there’s a servo motor involved with the zoom function, but I want one anyways. I thought the 18-80 and 70-200 T4.4 lenses have internal focusing, but maybe it’s that thingy (probably a servo motor or two) attached to the outside of the lens now that you mention it.

Hitchcock movies got reworked in 4K? Oof, I’ve been living under a bridge, I will need to check those out again some time.
I don’t think I will mess with film for a bit :nervous sweat laughter: until I need to burn through cartel money or something for money laundering purposes. I am envious though of the dynamic range in some of the work done with 70mm film, from motion picture and still photo applications. Hopefully Fujifilm can make me a 8x5 sensor digital cinema camera and sell it to me for $3799.

Yeah, I made the stupid mistake once of at first buying a cinema camera thinking I could bring it along for travel. This will let me live that pipe dream, at least when it’s safe to travel again. People kind of freak out with a giant cinema shoulder rig is pointed at them, shrugs shoulders.

Yeah, the difference with these cinema lenses is there's no motor mechanism in the lens (unlike USM or STM EF lenses for stills cameras doing video)....just interfaces for focus and zoom pulls (so there's an external Cine-Servo stepper that can handle pulls that are AF or manual).

It's amazing to me how many movies are being remastered to 4K now. I've got a nice OLED 4K TV with 7.1.4 speaker setup for Dolby Atmos/ DTS:X (beats most cinemas...though ironically there is a new AMC theater near me that was supposed to open with a true Dolby "Cinema"/Atmos setup though has been delayed with COVID). Many movies do show the limitations of film media (especially that film ISOs had a lot of grain, and there's less realized resolution with 35mm formats being a vertical gate). With my sound setup, I do really like how some old movies have been remastered to Dolby Atmos/DTS:X. Blade Runner is a good example. When Ridley Scott did edit it for the "Final Cut" with the blu-ray release, he did do it in 4K....but they went ahead and also remastered it in Atmos for the UHD release. I found it does make a difference (there is clear use of overhead). It doesn't use the subwoofer like Blade Runner 2049 (which dang, is way deep and loud with segments....also all DI was done in 4K). My receiver also has matrix processing with 5.1/7.1 movies to 3D: even great sounding Master and Commander soundtrack is better with my new setup. There's scenes that happen below decks, and you can hear clear sounds going overhead that are above deck.

With a director like Hitchcock, you also have to deal with the fact that his movies span different distribution companies. Since more and more people are also streaming movies: I will say I don't like the fact that Paramount and Lionsgate are still holdout studios for not supporting Movies Anywhere (which lets you stream you purchase with any service). Don't know if they really don't like Disney (which is the main conglomerate of Movies Anywhere). The 4K movies making it to UHD disc on Sept 8 are Universal's Psycho, Birds, Rear Window, and Vertigo. I bought the streaming set via Apple (where I also have family sharing with my dad, who's a big movie collector)....that also includes a lot of other titles currently HD (where my dad's collections have been on DVD/BD). Apple is also good about upgrading bought HD titles to 4K for free. So the whole collection also includes Shadow of Doubt, Topaz, Torn Curtain, The Trouble With Harry, Rope, , Saboteur, Frenzy, The Man Who Knew Too Much, and Family Plot.

idkdc wrote in post #19120810
I don’t think I will mess with film for a bit :nervous sweat laughter: until I need to burn through cartel money or something for money laundering purposes. I am envious though of the dynamic range in some of the work done with 70mm film, from motion picture and still photo applications. Hopefully Fujifilm can make me a 8x5 sensor digital cinema camera and sell it to me for $3799.

Also another thing when it comes to film properties....I really do think the latest digital technologies easily outpaces film. So the main film-makers we know that love 70mm film are Nolan and Tarantino. Well Tarantino especially has been influenced and conditioned with the 70mm Panavision process of the 60s/70s. With Nolan, he is also anti-digital intermediates unless "needed"....when in this day and age, they can be very good and believable to add more depth. I previously did note that in Dark Knight, I did notice shots of his (done in 70mm) where the scene was out of focus. At least with Dunkirk, I didn't note any scene like that. I also didn't see any scene that showed impressive DR with outdoor shots.

One thing I immediately noticed switching from film to digital was that digital was much better with high ISO (and now we do take it for granted how many dim scenes still have good resolution). Technicolor dye films are considered the best archived films...yet given their process, had very low DR. Later color processes would still have lower DR than B&W film since they required more photo-sensitive layers. From what I have read, color film might be at best 14 stops of DR....that RED cameras can now go beyond 16 stops should be telling. There are great 70mm film productions (like Baraka or Samsara) that take advantage of 8K resolutions....but I think a true 8K digital system will inherently be better.