Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
Thread started 26 Jul 2020 (Sunday) 05:48
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

R6 (and maybe R5) overheating issue

 
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
46,469 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 4570
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Aug 16, 2020 21:31 |  #91

This makes it appear that video has always been 'crippled' in dSLRs, so the R5/R6 is not really entering the grounds of new inferior behavior! I have never paid any attention to video to have learned of limitations until the R5/R6 came along

"Brief History of Video Recording Limits
One of the first DSLR cameras to break into video recording was the Canon 5D Mark II. The camera came with a 12-minute recording limit. There was a very good reason: a 4GB size limit on files in the FAT32 file system the camera used. Because of the way the camera stored files on cards, the files needed to have a cap. If there was no cap, the camera would overheat.

As time went on, the cameras got better at this. Canon released the 5D Mark III in 2012 and recording limits started to change. This big brother to the 5D Mark II had a newly designed interior, overcoming the overheating issue. Seamless file spanning also fixed the 12 minute cap. Suddenly, 30 minutes became the new video recording limit."

So the R5 is truly the mirrorless incarnation of the 5Dn !


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CyberDyneSystems
Admin (type T-2000)
Avatar
52,925 posts
Gallery: 193 photos
Likes: 10114
Joined Apr 2003
Location: Rhode Island USA
     
Aug 17, 2020 13:59 |  #92

This is all crazy,. wow.


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
12,321 posts
Gallery: 21 photos
Likes: 4211
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idaho
     
Aug 17, 2020 14:28 |  #93

Yeah I think there is more than is meeting the eye here

Why, all of a sudden, is canon making cameras that overheat ??

EOS R does not overheat. I dont recall a single report. I had a couple at weddings. They were on all day.....never overheated

Now, we have 4K and 8K video and the cameras overheat ?? Really...4K and 8K makes that much more heat

and it turns on a heat warn light that allows you to keep shooting stills, but your limited for video only ?? Really

Stills does not generate heat when used ???

Just does not make sense to me. Its got to be firmware and programmed into the cameras

The $$$$$ question is

WHY ???

from the 2-3 people that I know that have these bodies....Im told...They dont feel hot

WTH is really going on because I smell a rat


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
40,862 posts
Gallery: 116 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 8923
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 3 years ago by TeamSpeed. (4 edits in all)
     
Aug 17, 2020 14:34 |  #94

Yes those overheat indicators existed on the older bodies, correct? Also, people have measured the rear of the camera under the LCD screen to be around 120-130deg.

The heat would be inside about 3 layers deep though, and you aren't necessarily going to feel that. The temp sensors that are triggering this are on the electronic components or areas of the PCB. Also, because people don't feel the camera get hot is the VERY reason for the overheating. If the heat was dissipated correctly, that heat would come off the main boards inside and relayed through the mag body, making them warmer than they are now.

This is a hardware design issue, not some smoke (pun intended) and mirrors with software. ;)


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
"Man only has 5 senses, and sometimes not even that, so if they define the world, the universe, the dimensions of existence, and spirituality with just these limited senses, their view of what-is and what-can-be is very myopic indeed and they are doomed, now and forever."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,778 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16877
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
     
Aug 17, 2020 14:36 |  #95

umphotography wrote in post #19110586 (external link)
Yeah I think there is more than is meeting the eye here

Why, all of a sudden, is canon making cameras that overheat ??

EOS R does not overheat. I dont recall a single report. I had a couple at weddings. They were on all day.....never overheated

Now, we have 4K and 8K video and the cameras overheat ?? Really...4K and 8K makes that much more heat

and it turns on a heat warn light that allows you to keep shooting stills, but your limited for video only ?? Really

Stills does not generate heat when used ???

Just does not make sense to me. Its got to be firmware and programmed into the cameras

The $$$$$ question is

WHY ???

from the 2-3 people that I know that have these bodies....Im told...They dont feel hot

WTH is really going on because I smell a rat

I don’t. My R does not overhead because it doesn’t shoot 8K. Months before the R5 was released people were asking how are they going to manage the heat using 8K in that size of body and no fans.

It was predicted.


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
digital ­ paradise
Awaiting the title ferry...
Avatar
19,778 posts
Gallery: 157 photos
Likes: 16877
Joined Oct 2009
Location: Canada
     
Aug 17, 2020 14:57 |  #96

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19110588 (external link)
Yes those overheat indicators existed on the older bodies, correct? Also, people have measured the rear of the camera under the LCD screen to be around 120-130deg.

The heat would be inside about 3 layers deep though, and you aren't necessarily going to feel that. The temp sensors that are triggering this are on the electronic components or areas of the PCB. Also, because people don't feel the camera get hot is the VERY reason for the overheating. If the heat was dissipated correctly, that heat would come off the main boards inside and relayed through the mag body, making them warmer than they are now.

This is a hardware design issue, not some smoke (pun intended) and mirrors with software. ;)

I'm no engineer but while keeping the body exterior design and the same size how significant of difference would internal design changes have made? No disrespect to anyone but there are sure a lot of home engineers speculating. Smart people but I'd like to see one actually re-desgined and prove Canon either doesn't know what they are doing or they did it on purpose. Show me you get get 2 hrs of 8K.

Again I'm not backing Canon. It is their company and they chose that style and size of body. Possibly on purpose which doesn't bother me in the least bit. If I was serious videographer and it didn't work for me I'd find something else. After that EOSHD fiasco prove it to me.


Image Editing OK

Website (external link) ~ Buy/Sell Feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
I'm a bloody goody two-shoes!
Avatar
23,014 posts
Gallery: 457 photos
Best ofs: 12
Likes: 15614
Joined Sep 2008
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands, EU
     
Aug 17, 2020 14:59 |  #97

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19110588 (external link)
This is a hardware design issue, not some smoke (pun intended) and mirrors with software. ;)

Oh?
And you know this how?


Wild Birds of Europe
https://focusonphotogr​aphy.community.forum …/wild-birds-of-europe.54/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
40,862 posts
Gallery: 116 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 8923
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 3 years ago by TeamSpeed. (13 edits in all)
     
Aug 17, 2020 15:43 |  #98

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19110604 (external link)
Oh?
And you know this how?

I will back off just a bit and say I am 95% sure that the hardware is indeed heating and causing these alarms, if that helps any.

Technically:

My conclusions are based on my educational EE and CS engineering background at a well respected educational institution along with career experience in both areas, coupled with the tear-down photos. Finally some other independent test results were supplied on a different forum that utilize more than just temperature readings, but the increase in ISO noise on dark frames as the temperature warnings go off, showing that there are indeed physical temperatures that can be matched to the warnings, those that conducted the tests just don't know the exact temperatures that make up the ranges.

There is indeed software involved that could help the situation. Better functional design and memory management can reduce the workload significantly. The fact that the next firmware update will allow folks to record in light raw format which shrinks file sizes down for video substantially (an option reserved so far for their cinema line) shows that Canon is trying to find ways to reduce the load on the camera.

Logically:

Ignoring all these other facts and my own eperiences, if it were just arbitrary limits, Canon would be able to address these concerns a bit easier. I am sure they don't want to open up options for recording reserved thus far for their cinema line. If it were arbitrary software limits that are causing all these issues, then I presume Canon engineered these with prior bodies as well (like the 5D4), but never implemented that code until now. That seems a bit odd. The most logical answer is that Canon packed so much into this body, both hardware and firmware, that the final product now has some issues that they have to deal with. The combined package with IBIS, deep learning, eye AF algorithms, dual gain amplifiers, and possibly even some NR in the low ISO raw files has created some combined software/hardware complications.

On Principle:

If people believe that Canon marketing and software teams all got together to figure out how to hobble this together and make all these issues apply with software, so that they could deal with the bad press on these two releases, only to save face later by "fixing" that code to eliminate these problems, then why would they even be looking at Canon gear, or support that kind of business model? Wouldn't they move on simply due to principle alone? Also, what would the goal be? To force people to NOT buy these two cameras and instead wait for some future R1 body to be announced at 3x the cost? That certainly wouldn't look like marketing genius, whose goal is to maintain or gain market share, correct?


Generally:

Now perhaps you are of the belief there are indeed high temperatures in the camera where different sensors are picking up on heat from the processor, ram, I/O channels, etc and the software has arbitrarily low limits that kick off these warnings and eventual shutoffs? Then yes, I can see that too, but the reason would be that Canon is looking to their bottom dollar on warranty repairs and replacements (and longevity hopefully), so they set these limits pretty low perhaps. What that means is that Canon, like Sony, will back off a bit and raise those limits to allow more recording time, but just a bit more. None of that changes the fact though that as soon as you turn on the camera, the clock starts ticking down on that video capability that you might want to utilize, and that is perhaps the largest issue at this point, coupled with the really lengthy cool-down period. :(


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
"Man only has 5 senses, and sometimes not even that, so if they define the world, the universe, the dimensions of existence, and spirituality with just these limited senses, their view of what-is and what-can-be is very myopic indeed and they are doomed, now and forever."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
I'm a bloody goody two-shoes!
Avatar
23,014 posts
Gallery: 457 photos
Best ofs: 12
Likes: 15614
Joined Sep 2008
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands, EU
     
Aug 17, 2020 16:35 |  #99

TeamSpeed wrote in post #19110622 (external link)
I will back off just a bit and say I am 95% sure that the hardware is indeed heating and causing these alarms, if that helps any.

Yes. Better. ;-)a

My own opinion is that I don't know. And I don't think anybody does at this point.

No doubt it could be a hardware problem. But if so then why were these cameras launched like this? One might assume that Canon tests a new camera exhaustively before launch and they would have noticed the overheating issue immediately, as did early reviewers. So what? Canon didn't care about that and decided to launch anyway? It just doesn't make sense.


Wild Birds of Europe
https://focusonphotogr​aphy.community.forum …/wild-birds-of-europe.54/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
40,862 posts
Gallery: 116 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 8923
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 3 years ago by TeamSpeed. (7 edits in all)
     
Aug 17, 2020 16:39 |  #100

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #19110652 (external link)
Yes. Better. ;-)a

My own opinion is that I don't know. And I don't think anybody does at this point.

No doubt it could be a hardware problem. But if so then why were these cameras launched like this? One might assume that Canon tests a new camera exhaustively before launch and they would have noticed the overheating issue immediately, as did early reviewers. So what? Canon didn't care about that and decided to launch anyway? It just doesn't make sense.

At some point, when you discover an issue, it's too late to go back and redesign anything. So you have a great question, and it comes down to when did Canon have a working model to review and test? If it was too late in the project plan, then Canon most likely went to the programmers to put in additional checks, who knows? I do know it is always easiest to go to the dev team and ask them to code around problems. It is one of the least fulfilling parts of the job. :(

Also, I suspect that some of the Canon ambassadors hit these limits and questioned Canon, and a) Canon would say "these are preproduction models" and b) the photographers wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds them.

Finally COVID could have had some big impacts here. Usually Canon hosts a huge reveal and invites a ton of people to the event. This time, that wasn't possible, so Canon had to work differently and that could have caused some snafus in the test and review cycles? This release comes with some unusual real world events that Canon had to deal with, all the while having to manage the downturn in demand for digital photographic equipment and reduced budgets.

I am sure Canon has already performed a post-mortem review of all of this, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had a multiple page, multi bulleted list of issues that led to this. I am sure it wasn't just a single bullet that said "the software team has some arbitrary limits in place for use and cooldown, and they were too aggressive in those limits and didn't follow the software requirements, or the BA team was too aggressive".

Finally, this is what I see all too often. You can replace software with hardware on some projects too in the below list:

- The end user has an issue and blames the programmer.
- The programmer blames IT and the business analyst.
- The IT team returns the blame back to the programmer.
- The BA team returns the blame back to the programmer coupled with comments that the business didn't identify all the requirements.
- The management team just wants the problems resolved and yells at everyone.
- The end user just waits for a long time thinking they are not being heard.
- Finally somebody has a revelation somewhere, and changes are implemented and pushed through the channels. The end user is notified that there are software changes made that fixes the issue(s).
- The end user loses all trust in the organization as a whole and continues the cycle by going back to #1 the next time something happens.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
"Man only has 5 senses, and sometimes not even that, so if they define the world, the universe, the dimensions of existence, and spirituality with just these limited senses, their view of what-is and what-can-be is very myopic indeed and they are doomed, now and forever."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
12,321 posts
Gallery: 21 photos
Likes: 4211
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idaho
     
Aug 17, 2020 19:09 |  #101

All I Know is something is not right

These things should not be overheating

And consumers are very smart. Not sure how canon thought they could market a camera knowing it had an overheating issue. My guess, which is probably as good as anyone else's at this point, Is that they found out they had a problem when it got field tested and thats when they put in the verbiage about heat warn lights in the owners manuals.....They were too far in the game to make changes......and I think they got caught with their pants 1/2 way down....again

As much as I want this camera ( and I have been anxiously awaiting this release because the EOS R had way too many short comings for me to buy )........I dont have to buy a camera thats going to overheat. I really want this camera. But the dam overheat situation is just mind boggling to me.......really a stupid problem to have with these cameras.

For me....This is twice than Canon has stepped on their Johnsons with a mirrorless camera release......EOS R short comings and a single card slot and now the R5 which is the camera to have and it overheats.....seriousl​y....cant get any worse for canon users right now

BUT- If its not going to be a problem for Stills shooters...then Im probably going to step up......gonna wait for about 6 months as i suspect people will know for sure what they can and cant do......too new and everyone is speculating or outright guessing


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jared5
Senior Member
Avatar
560 posts
Likes: 527
Joined Aug 2016
Location: Seattle
Post edited over 3 years ago by Jared5.
     
Aug 17, 2020 21:06 |  #102

umphotography wrote in post #19110586 (external link)
Yeah I think there is more than is meeting the eye here

Why, all of a sudden, is canon making cameras that overheat ??

EOS R does not overheat. I dont recall a single report. I had a couple at weddings. They were on all day.....never overheated

Now, we have 4K and 8K video and the cameras overheat ?? Really...4K and 8K makes that much more heat

and it turns on a heat warn light that allows you to keep shooting stills, but your limited for video only ?? Really

Stills does not generate heat when used ???

Just does not make sense to me. Its got to be firmware and programmed into the cameras

The $$$$$ question is

WHY ???

from the 2-3 people that I know that have these bodies....Im told...They dont feel hot

WTH is really going on because I smell a rat


I've shot with the EOS R bodies for over a year and never had overheating issues in at least 96,639 images. Only twice the EOS R locked up on me, I did a quick battery pull (very easy to do with the battery grip) and I was back shooting again.

The EOS R5 does get hot shooting only stills and you can feel it on the body. It's not like any other Canon body I've used. Even so, I've only seen the white temperature warning icon and haven't had any real issues. I shot a wedding on Saturday and powered off the bodies when not in use and never had the temperature warning on either body, and it was a HOT day in Seattle on Saturday.

I would like to do some hybrid photo/video during weddings and events and as I move into that I think I'll really be more conscious of the temperature situation. Still planning only 1080 at 24fps but we'll see what happens.


EOS R3 | EOS R5 | EOS R | 5D Mk4
RF 70-200 f/2.8L IS | RF 28-70 f/2L | RF 24-70 f/2.8L IS | RF 15-35 f/2.8L IS
RF 135mm f/1.8L IS |RF 85mm f/1.2L | RF 85mm f/2 macro IS | RF 50mm f/1.2L | RF 50mm f/1.8 | RF 35mm f/1.8 macro IS | RF 24mm f/1.8 macro IS | RF 16mm f/2.8
https://www.youtube.co​m/JaredRibic/videos (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Colorblinded
Goldmember
Avatar
2,713 posts
Gallery: 18 photos
Best ofs: 3
Likes: 725
Joined Jul 2007
     
Aug 18, 2020 10:54 |  #103

Jared5 wrote in post #19110746 (external link)
The EOS R5 does get hot shooting only stills and you can feel it on the body. It's not like any other Canon body I've used. Even so, I've only seen the white temperature warning icon and haven't had any real issues. I shot a wedding on Saturday and powered off the bodies when not in use and never had the temperature warning on either body, and it was a HOT day in Seattle on Saturday.

That is interesting though.

Very curious to see how this all shakes out, although I am not considering an upgrade until probably Q2 of 2021 at the soonest.


http://www.colorblinde​dphoto.com (external link)
http://www.thecolorbli​ndphotographer.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
wimg
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,982 posts
Likes: 209
Joined Jan 2007
Location: Netherlands, EU
     
Aug 18, 2020 17:13 |  #104

Interesting poll discussion on video quality :)
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=Z-jdpFqA044 (external link)

Kind regards, Wim


EOS R & EOS 5 (analog) with a gaggle of primes & 3 zooms, OM-D E-M1 Mk II & Pen-F with 10 primes, 6 zooms, 3 Metabones adapters/speedboosters​, and an accessory plague

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
idkdc
Goldmember
Avatar
3,230 posts
Likes: 409
Joined Oct 2014
     
Aug 18, 2020 17:21 |  #105

wimg wrote in post #19111171 (external link)
Interesting poll discussion on video quality :)
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=Z-jdpFqA044 (external link)

Kind regards, Wim

Interesting in the comments, looks like the Ninja V can extend 4K 60P in HQ for quite a while or "indefinitely." That's pretty fair, although not ideal compared to completely internal recording, makes sense given the physical constraints of the camera itself.


I like big cinema cameras and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

36,106 views & 347 likes for this thread, 34 members have posted to it and it is followed by 26 members.
R6 (and maybe R5) overheating issue
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is IoDaLi Photography
1825 guests, 116 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.